Author Topic: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals  (Read 2930 times)

Offline Atruejedi

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#AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« on: January 20, 2017, 02:48:25 pm »
Thousands of messages have been exchanged between participates in The Council (Skype link). This thread exists to poll players about our tentatively approved proposals for GREASED ammunition. The most popular proposals are as follows:

Greased Ammo Proposals

GREASED AMMO _______________
   
Damage _____
   
Clip Size _____
   
Rate of Fire _____
   
Projectile Speed _____
   
Rotation Speed _____
   
Jitter _____
   
Current Stats
   
-20%
   
+20%
   
+60%
   
-20%
   
-15%
   
N/A
   
Proposed Stats Option 1
   
-20%
   
+20%
   
+60%
   
-20%
   
-15%
   
+30%
   
Proposed Stats Option 2
   
-20%
   
+20%
   
+60%
   
-30%
   
-15%
   
+20%
   
Proposed Stats Option 3
   
-20%
   
+20%
   
+60%
   
-30%
   
-15%
   
N/A
   

Notes:
Option 1 adds Jitter as a modifier for Greased ammo to make it less effective at non-short ranges.
Option 2 adds Jitter as a modifier for Greased ammo to make it less effective at non-short ranges and also decreases the velocity, shortening the range and arming time.
Option 3 decreases the velocity, shortening the range and arming time.

This table is designed for you to reply with quote to this thread and select the option with which you most agree by deleting the other proposals. Each proposal is grouped between the [ TR]  and [ /TR ] tags, so remove those lines of code as necessary. Good luck!

Personally, I vote for option 1. If not 1, then 3. I think 2 is overkill.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 03:06:14 pm by Atruejedi »

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2017, 02:54:43 pm »
Reasoning behind Option 2:

Increased jitter effects guns like gat and banshee, but has no effect on others like hades and lumber. Decreased velocity has less effect on gat and banshee, whose accuracy is jitter based, than on aiming-related guns like hades and lumber

A follow-up addition to Option 2 is increasing hades arm range by 20m to 170m. This would make the proposed greased reduce the proposed hades arm time to 119m - like the current 120m, instead of 105m which could be overpowered. This would further emplace the hades' role as a mid-long range gun but without effecting the most common arm-range reduction ammo. I don't think arm-range increases are necessary for Lumber and Lflak as well

Full disclosure: I use greased on most ships, a few of which are all greased, and acknowledge greased needs a reasonable nerf
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 03:03:33 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Kestril

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2017, 03:30:23 pm »
As for the reason behind option 1, I think a -vel adjustment will make greased even more appealing for guns that have arming time. I don't think that should be the case. Reduce the gat's effective range by increasing jitter, thus decreasing the accuracy at range.

Option 2 would probably need jitter to start effecting guns that don't have jitter normally in order to make greased a bit less widespread.

I'm going with option 1

GREASED AMMO _______________
   
Damage _____
   
Clip Size _____
   
Rate of Fire _____
   
Projectile Speed _____
   
Rotation Speed _____
   
Jitter _____
   
Proposed Stats Option 1
   
-20%
   
+20%
   
+60%
   
-20%
   
-15%
   
+30%
   
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 03:42:26 pm by Kestril »

Offline Daelf

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2017, 04:44:52 pm »
I'd say option 1 would be good for it, increasing jitter would make it so it would be used at a closer range, as I believe greased ammo should.

Offline BobDoleReigns

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2017, 04:55:51 pm »
This is the only proposed ammo change I can get behind (besides the loch fiasco) as greased gat/banshee has become too commonplace, if you have  a gat you NEED greased end of story... I'm going option 2 because +30% jitter seems a bit extreme and there is no leave proj speed alone +205 jitter option and feel 30% might be a step too far (would have to see to determine) moral of the story is I should not be even attempting to snipe components with greased gat which I am currently able to do with some reliability.

Offline TinyPixelBlock

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2017, 05:10:55 pm »
Greased Ammo Proposals

GREASED AMMO _______________
   
Damage _____
   
Clip Size _____
   
Rate of Fire _____
   
Projectile Speed _____
   
Rotation Speed _____
   
Jitter _____
   
Current Stats
   
-20%
   
+20%
   
+60%
   
-20%
   
-15%
   
N/A
   
Proposed Stats Option 1
   
-20%
   
+20%
   
+60%
   
-20%
   
-15%
   
+30%
   



I like the idea of adding significant jitter (and thus spread) to the gun. It should feel like a madman spitting haphazardly at his foes, as opposed to the current reliable stream of bullets. Option 2's reduced arming time only accommodates Hades, and I agree with the above that Greased should become less of a multipurpose solve-all ammo in future updates.

Option 3 is a no because slow bullets is simply the theoretical antithesis to the feel of a faster firing gun. It'd ruin the 'personality' of the Gatling too much.

Offline Mirwen

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2017, 05:25:40 pm »
I vote for
Quote
GREASED AMMO _______________
   
Damage _____
   
Clip Size _____
   
Rate of Fire _____
   
Projectile Speed _____
   
Rotation Speed _____
   
Jitter _____
   
Proposed Stats Option 2
   
-20%
   
+20%
   
+60%
   
-30%
   
-15%
   
+20%
   


I really like the idea of Greased becoming more a short range Shotgun ammo choice.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2017, 04:29:48 am »
I vote for
Quote
GREASED AMMO _______________
   
Damage _____
   
Clip Size _____
   
Rate of Fire _____
   
Projectile Speed _____
   
Rotation Speed _____
   
Jitter _____
   
Proposed Stats Option 2
   
-20%
   
+20%
   
+60%
   
-30%
   
-15%
   
+20%
   


I really like the idea of Greased becoming more a short range Shotgun ammo choice.

I don't mind this either. But what's the reward for getting this close? Same as before? And then you give arming time weapons even less arming time on the best arming-reducing ammo type in the game? I'm not so sure. Greased might be great but I really don't think the rewards are starting to match up to the risks past this point.

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2017, 07:18:59 am »
I don't mind this either. But what's the reward for getting this close? Same as before?

Yup, same as before. My problem with Greased is it is jammed in a gun and never unloaded. I want engineers to have to CHOOSE when to use Greased and Normal. Normal should not be taboo.

Quote
And then you give arming time weapons even less arming time on the best arming-reducing ammo type in the game? I'm not so sure. Greased might be great but I really don't think the rewards are starting to match up to the risks past this point.

I agree, this is scary. I just want jitter. Simple.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2017, 08:02:29 am »
Do you think the lower arm range is a problem on lumberjack or light flak? A complaint was that greased hades is too OP and increased jitter wouldn't effect it. Increasing hades arm by 20m leaves its arm range the same as current greased. Is there another solution to address greased hades?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 08:05:49 am by BlackenedPies »

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2017, 08:04:45 am »
Is the lower arm range a problem on light flak or lumberjack?

I would say so on Lumberjack. It's not as relevant on Flak but still important. Heavy Flak is out of the question anyway since it only loses 30% damage unarmed.

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2017, 08:08:45 am »
A complaint was that greased hades is too OP and increased jitter wouldn't effect it.

To clarify: one person had this complaint about himself and his clan mate being OP with Greased Hades. I still find this claim absurd. I've never thought Greased Hades is OP, and I'm not very good with it.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2017, 08:11:52 am »
I agree with Daniel. Hades is too effective at mid-close range as you can easily hit every shot. It also has great fire potential. My brawl mob uses greased hades instead of gat for this reason
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 08:14:45 am by BlackenedPies »

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2017, 08:14:37 am »
I agree with Daniel. Hades is too effective at close range as you can hit every shot. It also has great fire potential and some hull damage. My brawl mob uses greased hades instead of gat for this reason

To reclarify: I'd love it if Greased affected the Hades and added jitter 8)

...but we need Muse to develop that mechanic first. Sooo... unlikely...

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - GREASED ammunition proposals
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2017, 08:15:32 am »
A base minimum jitter added by greased, say 1.5, would have little or no effect at mid-close range on hades