Author Topic: A cry for change  (Read 58497 times)

Offline Naoura

  • Member
  • Salutes: 25
    • [Sass]
    • 31 
    • 45
    • 32 
    • View Profile
Re: A cry for change
« Reply #135 on: January 25, 2017, 03:12:42 pm »
Once again, different tastes in play. Engineering is boring to some, I get it. It is. There are times where I would want to go captain, or gun, to shake things up a little. However, I like engineering, because I like the way it plays. Yes, it's simple, yes, it's critical, but it's also rewarding in a different way than Piloting or Gunning.

You say an engineer has little impact, to which I disagree. With disable as it is, they are probably the most impactful part of the match. I agree that disable needs to stop being the pure meta, and I agree with new content to the engineers. Skirmish is starved for it anyways. But I disagree on making it so that everyone gets to gun. It'd be nice for more people to be able to shoot, but then they'd stop having to man the weaponry so as to repair everything before they could man them again. Now we've got a different kind of cycle, and one that doesn't do much to replace the last cycle.

As for ships that encourage everyone to gun, they exist! They're just squishy. The Mobula and the Spire are probably the best example of this. The Junker is another, a tanky ship with a perfect layout for an engineer to do both gun and repair. Honestly, the ship that most discourages it is the Pyra, and that's just because of the nature OF the pyra; be in the middle of the battle, take as much as you can, don't die. The maindeck on a Pyra is often the most boring for some, due to being needed almost solely for repairs. Just the nature of the beast. And then we have the Galleon, a ship which, you would think, would encourage having the ability to let the engineer gun, but it's done rarely in the case of Hwachas, as you want a rolling broadside for optimal damage, and the gungineer is stuck fixing engines.

And I'm not patronizing. That's what was on the Steam page. That's what people do walk in looking towards. Something that has been stated before is that one issue Guns has is that there's nothing like guns, meaning no one has anything to pull from, and can only go in with their expectations.

On the on the ship, I half agree. Your focus is suppossed to be on the ship. Your part is to keep it alive, and carry it to victory. But that's what you have the icons for, so you can be scanning the skies while watching component health. I've helped my captains several times by calling out ship placements they've missed, spotted and unspotted. I've also been responsible for getting kills as an engineer, especially on ships like the Junker, where the gunner is responsible for strip, not kill. And that's something you have to be aware of, when to leave a component to burn, and when to get the kill that will save the ship. So yes, your focus has to be on the ship, but no, it's not entirely taken up by it.

Less disable would be wonderful. More kill based weapons would offer up a more critical side to repairs and hull, and make engineering that more desperate, and, from my point of view, fun. The engineer is the one with the save, getting that spanner hit in just before the explosives hit, saving the day. It would make engaging that much more daring, as you're likely to still get disabled and very quickly killed. This is fine. I don't mind it. Having tools to overcharge engines and weapons would be wonderful. I *want* something other than the buff hammer. Armor kit from Alliance, thoroughly balanced, would be an awesome addition! As would, say, countless other additions that have been posted here. But they would still be timed, and still require the engineer to be highly mobile and situationally aware. Meaning we're back where we started. Unless you want to add more to the icons at the edge of your vision, and inspire clutter, you're back to square one with moving about the ship to boost components.

The fun of engineering is, as you say, 'running in circles playing whack-a-mole'. It's fast. It's mobile. It's trying to be everywhere at once. It's not patiently waiting for arc on a weapon, or trying to coordinate an ambush with your ally. You state it can be repetitive. So can everything, given time, especially when perfected. Dodging rams can become simply boring, simply because you know exactly the maneuver to take to avoid them. Or else using the same weapons day in day out can get boring, because you've mastered the only ones anyone ever takes. That's just where being starved for content comes in.

Offline Richard LeMoon

  • Muse Games
  • Salutes: 284
    • [Muse]
    • 33 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: A cry for change
« Reply #136 on: January 25, 2017, 03:42:38 pm »
For me, most to least exciting if you only stick to your role are Pilot (WHOOOOOOO!), Brawler Engineer (Gotta fix it all! And shoot that thing!), Gunner (gets dull), Sniper engineer (are we there yet?), Sniper gunner (at least the engineer gets to climb the rigging).

I do understand the viewpoint, and can't disagree with a personal opinion. Telling someone they are wrong when they say they think something is boring is the same as telling someone they are wrong when they say their favorite color is blue.

For this reason, I have previously championed a 'lighter' introduction to the game, with two person crews of Pilot and First Mate on smaller ships. With only two people, there is more for each one to do, and roles are less defined. Much more arcade-like.


Offline Naoura

  • Member
  • Salutes: 25
    • [Sass]
    • 31 
    • 45
    • 32 
    • View Profile
Re: A cry for change
« Reply #137 on: January 25, 2017, 03:50:38 pm »
I remember your abbreviated entrance to the game, Richard. The Krill, correct?

I'm not certain I agreed with it or not, but it's not a bad direction. I do think that Vet's WILL jump in on it, however. If only to interrupt the monotony, and to challenge each other in a much more fast-paced, higher risk game.

Offline Daft Loon

  • Member
  • Salutes: 47
    • [◕_◕]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: A cry for change
« Reply #138 on: January 25, 2017, 03:57:53 pm »
I've wondered at times about the possibility of being able to lock a single slot as a dedicated AI main engineer with its own preset pattern so that people can play ships that have 3 fun/popular roles without the problems associated with either the AI leaving its role and becoming ineffective or the 4th crewman getting bored with their role.

Offline Solidusbucket

  • Member
  • Salutes: 93
    • [SkBo]
    • 29 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: A cry for change
« Reply #139 on: January 25, 2017, 04:45:18 pm »
I've wondered at times about the possibility of being able to lock a single slot as a dedicated AI main engineer with its own preset pattern so that people can play ships that have 3 fun/popular roles without the problems associated with either the AI leaving its role and becoming ineffective or the 4th crewman getting bored with their role.

That'd be nice to do. I often find myself not taking the ship I want to because I don't want to screw people over. I went on a Goldfish binge for about a week and felt guilty about it.

Offline Richard LeMoon

  • Muse Games
  • Salutes: 284
    • [Muse]
    • 33 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: A cry for change
« Reply #140 on: January 25, 2017, 05:22:49 pm »
Shameless plug alert!

Why, yes, it was the Krill. Also, the Pinno. Two person ships with one default AI.


Offline Naoura

  • Member
  • Salutes: 25
    • [Sass]
    • 31 
    • 45
    • 32 
    • View Profile
Re: A cry for change
« Reply #141 on: January 25, 2017, 05:29:49 pm »
Still don't get the one AI, may as well just use reuglar ships and ship them with two AI, buuuut that's my opinion.

Offline BobyWilliam

  • Member
  • Salutes: 2
    • 8
    • 11 
    • View Profile
Re: A cry for change
« Reply #142 on: January 25, 2017, 06:26:41 pm »
I might not be the best man to give suggestions as I am obviously not as much in love with the game as you are guys.

That said, I like the game, played ~60 hours, it was great but I can't see me coming back very often after that point if no more mechanics are added. I tried to like engineering but it gave me headaches (motion-sickness) just to spam my left click button and run hammering component after component in a never ending fast paced loop.
I have been taken by the hand by some vets captains like Lysanya who were truly great at explaining me a loop I had to perform to be the most effective on their ship, I found joy in trying to please their needs the best I could but I never truly liked it for the gameplay itself sadly. I felt like a simple cog in the wheel, barely looking outside when I fucking love the atmosphere of the maps, locked in my task, hammering stuffs in a repetitive manner.
At a certain point we could loose or win, it didn't matter for me, my experience was the same.

For the gun part, I like to play tactical shooter where you have some challenge trying to hit that decisive bullet (Squad, R6, CSGO as you mentioned), I am not suggesting it should be the same because of course we are talking about ships here, but obviously the skill involved in shooting weaponry in GOI doesn't attract me that much, my only exception is the mine launcher with thoses rounds that goes super far (lesmok ?), I found the challenge/reward thing very good on them but that's pretty much it.
A lot of others were just painful to use for me, with very low turning rate or stuffs like that, it's not even what I call a challenge at this point but it being just purely frustrating for the sack of it.
The rest were just mindless shooting guns like the gatling or the flamethrower.

That left me with the piloting that I love actually, because I can look at thoses beautiful sceneries, and me just holding the wheel, hearing thoses sweet noises when I turn the ship makes me happy alone. I don't think I am a bad captain either as I was often fairly competitive against vets crew. I am burning thoses engines all the time too, and using every tools without mercy but I feel like my engineers are just here to wip my ass, or to give me the paper when I sneeze, I feel bad for them truly as I don't like that job myself, but hearing you guys truly liking it I think I am gonna change my view on them a bit.
Anyway I got bored of piloting after a while because there were no new ships to try or loadouts exciting me.

Well I realise I am saying nothing relevant here, only pure subjectivity, so I will just end by suggesting to add more contents (maps, loadouts, ships etc.), I would be happy to pilot again if it happens, until then I am gonna take an happy break.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 06:54:46 pm by BobyWilliam »

Offline Naoura

  • Member
  • Salutes: 25
    • [Sass]
    • 31 
    • 45
    • 32 
    • View Profile
Re: A cry for change
« Reply #143 on: January 25, 2017, 06:37:58 pm »
Don't worry about it not being relevant.... it is Boby. Skirmish mode has been starved for content for a long, long time. The last weapon added was the Minotaur, which... honestly, hasn't been widely accepted, and the last ship added, if I remember correctly, was the Mobula, and that was almost 4 years ago.

As I said, personal taste defines each role. Some people are better off in a captains position, others on a gun, and some beating the deck. You've got your taste of Guns, and we do hope you come back. Alliance mode is something that is coming, and I hope you come back for that at the very least, to get a taste of it as well. It's got some new ships for you to try, as well as a whole PvE mode.

If you don't feel like coming back for Skirmish, at least come back for Alliance. It's something new to GoI, and I sincerely hope you find it more to your liking if you haven't any love for Skirmish.

Offline Solidusbucket

  • Member
  • Salutes: 93
    • [SkBo]
    • 29 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: A cry for change
« Reply #144 on: January 25, 2017, 06:47:03 pm »