Author Topic: A cry for change  (Read 95235 times)

Offline TinyPixelBlock

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2017, 07:29:20 pm »
The OP clearly comes from a place of care. I have only been playing since February last year, but already I have come to know a fantastic portion of the community wholeheartedly keeping the spirit alive by driving forward demands for improvements even as many give up. Good developers could only dream for such eager feedback, and to their credit Muse has taken some of that onboard with certain additions like 4v4 maps.

But if there is one thing that can be said at this point, it's that map variations are not enough. The idea that a developer responsible for balancing the game may not have played it at all for two years? That is icing on a poor excuse for a cake. It's a distressing realization to know that an active core of well meaning players is so helpless to do anything meaningful to keep the game they love alive. You can see it even in this thread - the despair, the concern and the recognition that no matter how much people cry any hope of getting through to the Devs is slim to none.

Population drift is natural, but that is no excuse for such a prominent attitude of disinterest that only helps to drive players further away. Alliance has its unique place, but Skirmish is the very core of what makes GOI such an innovative multiplayer title among a sea of endless codshmups and Mobas. So much potential is being squandered and it shouldn't be.

At this point, something needs to change on a meta level to reinvigorate interest. A new map might do it, or a new game mode, a new ship or a new gun … but for god sake LISTEN TO THE PLAYERS. Heck, give them the tools and they'd probably fix it for you out of pity. They clearly know the game better than some of your own staff, Muse !

P.S. I have already sent an email about it, but at least consider a FREE FOR ALL mode. A four team skirmish (1v1v1v1 or 2v2v2v2) would be such a simple but fundamentally fresh change to the normal ebb and flow of a match. It would be like a whole new game, and all it takes is some adjusted spawn points and adding two extra team colors.

Offline Atrusario

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2017, 07:54:04 pm »
I think it's safe to say I'm not the only one who thought Alliance would either be a make or break for GOIO; either a time of revival or ignorance.

Over the past three years since I first began playing Guns, there has not been a single content update to skirmish. This is absurd, especially for this genre of game. Even then skirmish hung in Alliance's shadow, and that is nearly unfathomable. Alliance finally entered the public eye (for real and after many, many delays) and I personally did not enjoy it. That's not to speak of it's quality, for that's an entirely different topic. The point is this: Alliance split this already small community in half in terms of lobby population, and I think this is another example of Muse misjudging their game and the community as a whole.

Listen, Muse! So many people here want your success! We need to work together! You need us just like we need you!

WAKE UP!


You know what needs to be done.

I want to take this chance to thank the greater GOIO community for working so hard towards GOIO's success. It's truly been an amazing experience to watch and be involved in.

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2017, 07:54:26 pm »
I have 1700 hours in this game. I paid 5 dollars for it.


Offline AstralTwilight

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2017, 07:56:04 pm »
I have played this game for just over a year now. I have competed in the BBR, SCS, and the Sprocket league tournament. I am a fairly new player, yet I still remember when I could get online and thereally would be 600 people online. Yet as a patron of this game, I feel thathat I have been cheated. I was forced to move to other games. Warframe is a prime example of how a dev team should interact with thier players. When problems are brought up in thier live chats, the problem is A:fixed within weeks or B: a detailed letter is sent out to the players telling them why it hasn't been fixed and what thier plan is to adress any further grievances.
Sadly here we have begged for years that new content needs too be added to scirmish mode. PLEASE MUSE. WE ARE BEGGING YOU. WE DON'T WANT THIS GAME TO DIE. HEAD OUR PLEAS. please...

Offline Nietzsche's Mustache

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2017, 07:57:46 pm »
I'm rather glad this post exists. I'm rather glad a lot of people have shown that they agree with this post because I and most of the people I know have been saying precisely this for years. Two years ago, this game seemed to have the monopoly on team-based, multi-role, ship-centric combat. Now games like Pulsar, World's Adrift, Black Wake, among others stand to out-rite replace GoIO for many of us. Hell, when you look at World's Adrift, you see Adventure mode as it was laid out by muse 4 years ago taking shape. Except better.

When discussing this thread with some friends who used to play GoIO, someone suggested 'nitty gritty things like hours spent carfefully rebalancing and testing keep the old guard happy but they don't keep the lights on'. This indicates to me that a lot of the issues we're running into as a community with muse has to do with it's business model. They've got micro-transactions, yes, but primarily they rely on sales of the game. That puts them in a place where developing new content and continuously balancing it doesn't bring in revenue. Creating a new game and selling it does. This is why I don't say what I'm about to say lightly or with malice and I want to be as helpful as possible when I make this suggestion:

Muse is going to go bankrupt if they can't give people a reason to stick around and play Skirmish. Alliance isn't going to keep people interested, it's not going to bring enough new people into the game to keep muse afloat. I promise. Introduce new REAL content for skirmish, introduce a tech tree with micro-transactions to help fund the muse team while creating new content for a game people have already paid for, and maybe. MAYBE then muse stands a chance. But I'm afraid muse has already shot themselves in the foot and let it become gangrenous. My projection, Muse shuts its doors by May 2018. But that's not a bad thing. Then the team can take their new(ish)found collective experiences and go on to do bigger and better things.


Offline -Anakin-

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2017, 08:13:05 pm »
I used to care about the future of this game. I used to submit feedback and test Alliance and be excited and optimistic. I hoped.

The future never came. The devs never listened. Excitement turned to disappointment and hope turned to apathy.

Now I play Overwatch.

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2017, 08:20:25 pm »
I'm rather glad this post exists. I'm rather glad a lot of people have shown that they agree with this post because I and most of the people I know have been saying precisely this for years. Two years ago, this game seemed to have the monopoly on team-based, multi-role, ship-centric combat. Now games like Pulsar, World's Adrift, Black Wake, among others stand to out-rite replace GoIO for many of us. Hell, when you look at World's Adrift, you see Adventure mode as it was laid out by muse 4 years ago taking shape. Except better.

When discussing this thread with some friends who used to play GoIO, someone suggested 'nitty gritty things like hours spent carfefully rebalancing and testing keep the old guard happy but they don't keep the lights on'. This indicates to me that a lot of the issues we're running into as a community with muse has to do with it's business model. They've got micro-transactions, yes, but primarily they rely on sales of the game. That puts them in a place where developing new content and continuously balancing it doesn't bring in revenue. Creating a new game and selling it does. This is why I don't say what I'm about to say lightly or with malice and I want to be as helpful as possible when I make this suggestion:

Muse is going to go bankrupt if they can't give people a reason to stick around and play Skirmish. Alliance isn't going to keep people interested, it's not going to bring enough new people into the game to keep muse afloat. I promise. Introduce new REAL content for skirmish, introduce a tech tree with micro-transactions to help fund the muse team while creating new content for a game people have already paid for, and maybe. MAYBE then muse stands a chance. But I'm afraid muse has already shot themselves in the foot and let it become gangrenous. My projection, Muse shuts its doors by May 2018. But that's not a bad thing. Then the team can take their new(ish)found collective experiences and go on to do bigger and better things.

It's crazy how much fun world's adrift is, and how much it is like adventure mode should have been. Thats what we call it in TB, the real adventure mode.

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2017, 08:22:11 pm »
I used to care about the future of this game. I used to submit feedback and test Alliance and be excited and optimistic. I hoped.

The future never came. The devs never listened. Excitement turned to disappointment and hope turned to apathy.

Now I play Overwatch.

+1
ps fight me, TBbyron#1253

Offline -Anakin-

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2017, 08:38:36 pm »

Offline cfh

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2017, 08:51:35 pm »
This is one of the best communities I have been a part of. I really enjoy all the good times I've had with many different people here. It would be in the best interest of Muse to take into account for what the people that allow their product to continue to exist with success in mind if there is any sort of hope for it to continue to thrive. Listen to those that allow your community to continue to exist and thrive.

PS. Nightmap!

Offline Puddlenipper

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2017, 08:59:15 pm »
+1 I left the game for this reason.

Offline Kestril

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2017, 09:35:53 pm »
A well thought out post by the OP that summarizes the communities feelings on the matter in a non-hostile way.

+1

I've backed since the Kickstarter and launch. I do not mean this as a threat or anything of the sort, but I've had my eye on blackwake now for a while if the blackwake devs seem more responsive and in touch with their community I may gravitate to that game for my teamwork MOBA fix.  Muse may have held that crown when guns of icarus released, but their laser-focus on alliance mode at the cost of interaction with their steady, hardcore playerbase really did make it seem like they were not listening or out of touch with the feedback of both the casual and the competitive skirmish community.

As far as what you can do now to get on-course: Try to get #tankspire changed and tested again this week, try to add the heavy mine grenade launcher to skirmish the next; and for goodness sake, stay in the lobby to listen to feedback after rather than leave immediately. Listen and act upon the feedback that the few left that wants this game to survive offer. It's all we've got left to offer. Be more responsive. Spend time with the community on fight the devs event rather than silencing all microphones for the sake of a youtuber-style stream. Engage your community and they will stay and grow in spite of the competition.

Muse, it's time to rise to the challenge and keep your throne! You are the veterans to take on the up-and-coming competition. Please let our insightful and passionate feedback guide you to greatness through the storm ahead. Ignore it at your peril and be lost in the black wake of similar games to come.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 10:01:23 pm by Kestril »

Offline Shas'ui

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2017, 11:01:38 pm »
When I got the Tankspire's proposed stats, I knew there was an issue; now I understand why. Numbers and statistics are critical to good balance, but are not the entire picture: the sum of the parts is not always equal to the whole. Perception is almost as important as the actual stats: look at how many people declare the Minotaur "pointless", while a few have looked past its apparent weakness and found a powerful tool. The way people think about something changes how it is used, which can make a sub-par gun a mainstay, while more powerful ones are not used to their full potential. And the only way to find out how people feel about something, is to ask, or to experience it yourself, and reflect on that experience.

On the other hand, you are trying to change things; too much focus on how it is now can make it harder to see what it could be. Conversely, if you try to change something without knowing how it works, it's easy to accidentally change what makes it work in the first place. Imagine trying to upgrade a computer without knowing how it works. It's easy enough to get the case open, but if you plug something in backwards, it's not going to end well.

Thus, when the proposed changes include altering the gun arcs, we can assume that not enough is known about the current function. As almost anyone who has flown on a spire knows, it's only attraction is the ability to have all three, or even four guns, one of them heavy, on target at once. It's weak health is an incentive to kill the enemy before they can shoot at you. And while this was an experiment to see if changing that fundamental weakness would be practical, that core ability to keep all guns on target is so central to the design that changing it would result in a completely different ship. In this case, a goldfish.

There are fundamental features that define each ship; while they can be changed, extreme care must be taken while doing so. To extend the computer analogy above, these features are not the graphics cards, the RAM, or even the CPU: they are the power supply; the bit that, if you mess with too much, makes every other adjustment pointless. However, once you understand how and why it works, it can be adjusted safely.

There is nothing fundamental wrong with a tank spire. I've personally heard several interesting ideas as to how it could be done. But the proposed changes reveal not only a lack of understanding as to what makes a spire work, it reveals a lack of understanding as to the different ways things can be balanced. Adjusting the turning rate on the spire affects it hugely. Component health, and the tools it rewards, is why popping the balloon on a squid is more valuable than popping a junker. Crew placement and routes are why a mobula armor break is more problematic then a goldfish's, or even a pyra's. Forwards speed is why a galleon is a great teammate for king of the hill, and a regrettable one for crazy king. Each of these factors affects the usage in different ways, and it is important to see what changes one creates before layering on others.

TL;DR:

For changes to be effectively made, you must understand how the item currently works.

This understanding is based not only on stats & numbers, but on perception and use, which can change, and are only measurable via interaction with the system.

Offline Lady Veronica

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2017, 11:18:14 pm »
I agree that the management process of this game needs to be addressed. I was told via email back in April last year that they were working on creating a mail system in-game so you didn't have to wait until someone randomly came online. That of course, never happened. Many things need an update, and Muse needs to get on that, once the online players in the week fall back to a low of 50 and lows of 5 sometimes late at night, then it's too late.

It sounds like there is a problem with communication in-between the developers, that should be the first thing to address so people give reliable updates and perform their tasks efficiently.

Offline Solclaim

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Re: A cry for change
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2017, 12:04:06 am »
Do devs even look at these forums? You have not received a response. Sorry everyone but Games dead lol. Move on, go support devs that actually care about their game. Oh yeah games dead lol.