Author Topic: An open letter to Muse  (Read 6502 times)

Offline Sparkle Dust

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An open letter to Muse
« on: January 03, 2017, 04:10:34 pm »
Given Muse's continued policy of ignoring my emails I have decided since they refuse to conduct themselves with any degree of honor I will stop giving them the courtesy of discretion.

My verbatim response  to their most recent ridiculous "warning" email, in which I was accused of "Reason: Violates Community Code of Conduct 1: Profanity/Obscenity 2: Trolling and Harassment


Angry conduct in voice chat towards new players."

Quote
Its funny, I watched the 12/30 fireside chat and I heard the word fuck multiple times. Care to explain to me why my saying fuck in game is "profane" and "obscene" but you're saying it on live streams isn't?  Or is this just another example of how the rules that apply to me don't apply to anyone else.   

What kind of bullshit is "angry conduct toward new players".  I'm not obligated to treat people like precious snowflakes. If you don't like how I teach people then you should stop demanding that I fucking teach them. 99% of this shit could be solved with a kick option, but once again no, you refuse to treat the actual problems and instead go after me.

Muse lost the moral high ground when grimmick changed my name (which, by his own admission did not violate the rules) to something which was obviously intended as a homophobic slur.  So go ahead and persecute me, you've shown time and again that the moderation of this game is petty and hypocritical.

Now as others can attest, the incident which has them so upset was me explaining to someone why their high level captain left when they refused to accept a load out. At no point in the discussion was the aforementioned snowflake actually insulted, in fact he even went so far as to ask if he could fly with me so he could learn more. As in so many of these cases the person actually involved wasn't even the one who put in the report, rather someone else in lobby chose to be offended FOR him, and proceeded to alert muse that someone was in danger of being treated like an adult and not a toddler. 

This is a continued theme where bystanders are the most upset by things that don't actually effect them, and rather then acknowledging  that life can be rough and minding their own business they immediately cry out for nanny muse to come save them from meanies on the internet.  It is utterly absurd that third party whining has any weight in the moderation of this game.

I know full well that the most likely response I will receive will be another several month ban.  Muse has shown that it's final solution for those who do not fit it's ideals is to get rid of them. One does not have to look far back in history to see the kind of company they keep.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2017, 04:43:23 pm »
This particular incident could've been avoided by removing the ability to decline loadouts, an option which shouldn't exist in the first place. After so many reports and contention on this, the only solution offered was to remove the ability to spam loadouts - the only defense pilots had against trolls who refused loadouts. The only option pilots have is to leave
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 04:47:57 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Red-Xiii

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2017, 05:28:22 pm »
Could it be because of your terrible conduct towards "snowflakes", veterans, noobs, or average players alike? 

Think that is much more plausible.



Offline Atruejedi

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2017, 05:29:56 pm »
#SparkleForSheriff

This man says everything we're thinking and is (un?)fortunate enough to not hold back. I respect him and his tirades. It is cathartic to hear unfiltered frustrations and know you're not alone.

Completely agree with "third party reports" being a huge problem. When Muse "sat me down" to chide me "officially" for the second time in nearly four years (during which I asked for and received a two-day ban), it was sparked (PUN) because somebody reported me for someone else and the person being "defended" didn't have a problem with me. Absurd and frustrating. Muse needs to #GetInTheTrenches and play their own game outside of the twice-weekly dev games. They need to experience what really happens in lobbies. Would also help to hear the obvious frustration with the devs and the easy fixes to improve the game.

[cue Muse's entry into the thread claiming secret accounts and how they're actually in-touch with the community]

It's also freaking baffling that the scoreboard has been broken for a week and Muse claims they didn't know about it. Boot up your game and actually play it.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 05:31:44 pm by Atruejedi »

Offline Sparkle Dust

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2017, 05:48:20 pm »
Could it be because of your terrible conduct towards "snowflakes", veterans, noobs, or average players alike? 

Think that is much more plausible.

Why thank you, third party that has been there for exactly none of the incidents being discussed.  You have inadvertently made a point I had neglected

The continued theme is that I am just a bigot who doesn't like new players and treats the poorly.  This is totally untrue. I treat everyone the same. Do a good job and I tell you you're doing a good job. Ignore instructions multiple times and sabotage a match for 7 other people  and you'll most likely get yelled at.  And then of course we have people like you, the high levels who play almost exclusively with stacks and then condemn me (who plays almost entirely with randoms) for not being welcoming enough. You have no right to criticize,  you aren't even willing to give novices a chance, so I can tell you exactly what to do with your high horse. 

Offline Red-Xiii

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2017, 05:56:31 pm »
I'm not going to indulge you gentlemen much further but I find it absolutely hilarious that the two people (jedi and sparkle) on their violins about their reports are the most toxic in public lobbies and games.  What you dont think I've heard you?  I've seen your actions?  Leaving in the middle of games?  After thrashing your crew and other people in lobbies?  I've seen it personally, and I've seen the ripple effect you have on the people you leave in your wake. 

Shouting, name calling, arguing like petulant children.  It's a history folks.  You were not called out on one incident Sparkle.  You are toxic in nature.  And the reprecussions will follow you everywhere.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 05:58:04 pm by Red-Xiii »

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2017, 05:59:44 pm »
If you have a decent case, state it. I actually got reported by two kids for stealing their ship. I reported them for trolling and standing in front of my view the whole time. I took screenshots and had evidence on hand. Still, Muse went after me like I was the bad guy. When I provided evidence, things changed.

I give Muse the benefit of the doubt on a lot of things, simply because I communicate with them regularly and they are very decent folk. But the one critique I will always have is the lack of kick buttons or basic community policing. Everything has to run through them which I still argue is a waste not only for them but also for the community. Abuse or not, it causes more harm than good in the long run. To me this thread is just another example of how the system doesn't work. Muse shouldn't have needed to even send a warning unless enough reports were submitted.

If you haven't sent to feedback@musegames.com about this, I'd do it. You'll get a much better response than in here. You do have a valid point. Muse needs to maintain a standard elsewhere too, not just in game.

Offline Sparkle Dust

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2017, 06:18:31 pm »
I'm not going to indulge you gentlemen much further but I find it absolutely hilarious that the two people (jedi and sparkle) on their violins about their reports are the most toxic in public lobbies and games.  What you dont think I've heard you?  I've seen your actions?  Leaving in the middle of games?  After thrashing your crew and other people in lobbies?  I've seen it personally, and I've seen the ripple effect you have on the people you leave in your wake. 

Shouting, name calling, arguing like petulant children.  It's a history folks.  You were not called out on one incident Sparkle.  You are toxic in nature.  And the reprecussions will follow you everywhere.


Oh yes, the true mark of the righteous, throwing bombs and then running away.   I've been around you too, and you are not worthy of the attitude you're presenting.  You're nothing but an elitist.  Your post however is hilarious. I'm some great, powerful, force that forever scars the helpless children that are unfortunate enough to play a video game with me.  The countryside shall burn and the rivers run dry at the fire and might of my rage.  Lo great misfortune follows me, and no place under the entirely of heaven shall escape the poison of my tongue! My tyranny boundless! My injustice cruel!  I lure in the pure and innocent and defile them with great foulness!

WHAT WICKED HAS THE WORLD WROUGHT TO DESERVE ME? WHAT SECRET EVIL HAS WARRANTED SUCH CONDEMNATION?

WOE BE TO THOSE WHO TOIL UNDER THE WEIGHT OF SPARKLE DUST!

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2017, 06:41:58 pm »
I'm some great, powerful, force that forever scars the helpless children that are unfortunate enough to play a video game with me.  The countryside shall burn and the rivers run dry at the fire and might of my rage.  Lo great misfortune follows me, and no place under the entirely of heaven shall escape the poison of my tongue! My tyranny boundless! My injustice cruel!  I lure in the pure and innocent and defile them with great foulness!

WHAT WICKED HAS THE WORLD WROUGHT TO DESERVE ME? WHAT SECRET EVIL HAS WARRANTED SUCH CONDEMNATION?

WOE BE TO THOSE WHO TOIL UNDER THE WEIGHT OF SPARKLE DUST!

I wish forum signatures existed.

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2017, 05:57:54 am »
i STAND WITH SPARKLE!

Offline Narayan

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2017, 10:17:49 am »


Sparkle I have nothing but empathy for you, yes you are a jerk in game to idiots. Why tho isn't there a punishment for people being idiots? Why is the punishment and the condemnation reserved for the people that just want to enjoy their free time idiot free. I swear guns is more like an actual job then any game I've ever played, forcing you to do stuff you don't want to do, be around people you hate, and getting in trouble if anyone in the room not necissarily the person you were talking to is offended by what you say.


Hey devs, it's a game, you know for fun. That's why people play these. Some people like training because for instance it makes them feel important (Jedi). Some people don't (every CA, what percentage of them even play anymore?). Don't force people to train, that's exactly what you are doing with no vote kick, and decline lodouts, and it drives people insane. There is a solution for all of this we need to go back to when we had 2 or 3k people on and we don't have to play with each other all the time, that means free to play. Or we can go the kick route and that would at least make lobbies even cause you could go 2 ai.


Muse has said before that if you don't want to train you shouldn't have to. They've also said they won't implement vote kick because it would disadvantage new players. It can either be one or the other, you devs need to make a choice. If you chose kick it will force low level players into low level lobbies, if you choose the status quo you will keep bleeding veteran players the same as you lost your CAs.

Oh and xii quit acting holier than tho I haven't seen you on a ship with 3 noobs ever.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 10:33:07 am by Narayan »

Offline Kajros

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2017, 11:04:47 am »
Some people don't (every CA, what percentage of them even play anymore?).

Greetings Narayan,
I highly disagree with your opinion saying every CA doesnt want to train novice players. When I became CA, I was suprised how every CA I played with was trying to help every novice we came across. Its true that CA isnt much present in-game as before but I believe its because of exams and test most of them have at that time plus Christmas holidays.

Best Regards,
Kajros
Community Ambassador

Offline Narayan

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2017, 12:11:01 pm »
Ok I'll bite, how many active ca's have you seen training players in the last 3 months? I'll define active as a CA who plays 3 times a week and spends 4 matches per week training new players. I want to be clear I'm not talking about people who are ca and are on a stacked shop with their friends giving advice to the noobs on the other team who are gonna to be crushed.



Even though I think he's a ass Jedi spends more time training noobs than every ca put together. What does that say about ca? They never cared about training and it was just a club maybe.



« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 12:22:31 pm by Narayan »

Offline Kestril

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2017, 01:21:00 pm »
Sparkle your intentions are good when explaining things to new players. Of that, I have no doubt. And it can get frustrating in such a teamwork-oriented game. But I find that I get better results out of newbies when approaching that gap of knowledge with a patient explanation rather than showing frustration and breeding toxicity. A level 2 has never set foot on a mobula before.  They won't know why two full-repair kits are needed. Explaining that the parts are very spread out. Explaining the logic behind the choice does much more in earning their respect and displaying your knowledge of the game much more than arguing from authority. It gets results, too.

Remember, it's not your job to explain to new players. And, remember that players are there to have fun. A captain yelling about how they suck because they don't know the game isn't fun. I don't treat newbies like special snowflakes because I feel obligated to, I do so because it's what gets results (and I generally try to be respectful to people and keep track of my own canoe.)  I explain things with the understanding of that massive knowlage gap.  When I do get to toxic and salty I quit the game, or crew with some buddies I know. Just last night I had a newbie crew and got kicked to the curb by Mr. Hadush and Sundstrom of SkBo. When I realized I was about to start passing blame around or get loud, I left the match to quit and cool off. I reckon if you put this into practice you'll see a lot less people reporting you.

There isn't a punishment for bad play or lack of in-game knowlage because IT IS OKAY TO BE BAD AT A VIDEO GAME. There is no malace or ill-will or toxicity when I miss a repair cooldown as a crap engineer. There is lots of toxicity, malace, and salt when the captian gives me an earful over things that were either out of my knowledge or above my skill level. "Aim better" is not constructive. "Use the map cross-referenced with the notches on the hades cannon sight to better your aim" is constructive, because it gives me the knowledge to improve with practice. Likewise "Take his loadout because he has more matches than you." Is not constructive. "Take a repair loadout because the components are very spread out on this ship." Is constructive, because it gives context for the correct play. While you wanted the ship to be effective, you didn't provided the context to do so at first.  Only after you were being very loud and unsportsmanlike did you provide context, but at that point, may players decided to leave the lobby, myself included.


I do agree to the point that muse needs to maintain their community standards in their official livestreams and in all of their Guns of Icarus media for professionalism's sake. To set the example for the community, as it were.

Lets not finger-point CA's. They volunteer to be helpful to newbies when they can. I've seen CA's train pilots and be very helpful and friendly to newbies.

Finally, I do think loadouts should be able to be declined and selected be engies/gunners. It put's too much power in the hands of the captians and may make players feel very insignificant in the engineer or gunner role. Furthermore, I think it places an undue importance on the role of captianing, and makes the information burdern for new captians even higher, as a new captian will have to learn what loadouts to equip other players with in addition to their ship.  It's not that hard to explain about the correct loadout. I do think that loadouts should be limited to one fire-extinguish tool, however. This will ensure that any engineer loadout will have at least one repair tool and we won't see chem/extinguish/buff trollout ever again.

I may be able to get behind a kick-vote system, or an auto-ban system after X number of reports depending on how it's implemented. This community is already very clique-ish and a kick-vote system may make it even more so. But, OTOH, it's a way to get around the new players that join with the sole intention to troll, and Muse is very small, so they don't always have the work-power to sort through each report one-by-one.  Muse are in between a rock and a hard place on this issue.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 01:46:48 pm by Kestril »

Offline Narayan

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Re: An open letter to Muse
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2017, 01:49:47 pm »
This the go to argument and I hate it. People have a right to be new and not good at this game, it is therefore your responsibility to nerf your ship, answer every question, justify your loadout, beg them to please repair the hull before we hit the mountain, understand why they don't want to get off the gun and try to gently explain the game doesn't work that way, and play a match you know you are gonna lose because you got the noob and the other guys didn't.

Well you know what I have a right to play with other players both crew and opponent consummate with my skill level. im gonna use a soccer reference because I know you euros don't watch football, but would you think it's fair for the World Cup champions to go against a secondary school? Would it be fair to have a professional soccer tournament and pepper one team with special Olyimpian? If you say no that wouldn't be fair then why should I have to play with these retards and teach them the game?

This is where our game system falls short with our current player numbers, you can't ensure quality of play between even skill levels, like nearly every other game does. What's the point of the mmr if we keep getting consistently unbalanced lobbies? Why can a new player justify taking a double flack pyra cause he wants to have fun, but I'm in the wrong for wanting to kick him for the lobby?

Is far as I'm concerned CA stands for Currently Absent. I don't see them on I know that if they all came back tomorrow we would double our gam population. I'm sick of this tho if you don't want salt fix the matchmaker, fix the population, or add the ability to kick.

How many of you have been in a balanced lobby with 2 empty slots on your team that get filled by brand new players, and you know at that point you just lost the match before you even hit ready, and you've already been waiting in lobby like 10 mins. Enough is enough, if you don't like the salt, tough titties I'm not gonna pat you on the back and call you a pillar of the community cause your friends list is better and you stack first, or because you hang out on this forum even tho you haven't played in months and think you have an opinion.   


Kestril Your advice is to play until you get so frustrated you quit the game to cool off? That's retarded, this should be a fun video game and if you're having reactions like that something is seriously wrong and that proves it. Unless you're just the kinda person who likes that, in which case get help bro.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 02:00:37 pm by Narayan »