Author Topic: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2  (Read 43863 times)

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2013, 12:53:40 pm »
I didn't realize how annoying it was before map voting until we had it, then lost it. And you thought Cp games were few and far between with voting on, lol...


Offline Imagine

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2013, 01:03:03 pm »
Well I mean, even before map voting, the maps were on a rotation, right? I think that's correct... regardless, it'd be really nice not to have to replay the same map over and over again without switching game :(

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2013, 01:07:30 pm »
Well I mean, even before map voting, the maps were on a rotation, right? I think that's correct... regardless, it'd be really nice not to have to replay the same map over and over again without switching game :(

They were not on a rotation that I remember. It was either voting, or the same map as it is now. Now that the lobby business is taken care of, I don't see why they wouldn't revert it back soon.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2013, 04:24:26 pm »
Well I mean, even before map voting, the maps were on a rotation, right? I think that's correct... regardless, it'd be really nice not to have to replay the same map over and over again without switching game :(

They were not on a rotation that I remember. It was either voting, or the same map as it is now. Now that the lobby business is taken care of, I don't see why they wouldn't revert it back soon.

I think they were, actually. Either that or they were randomly chosen.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2013, 04:28:53 pm »
Well I mean, even before map voting, the maps were on a rotation, right? I think that's correct... regardless, it'd be really nice not to have to replay the same map over and over again without switching game :(

They were not on a rotation that I remember. It was either voting, or the same map as it is now. Now that the lobby business is taken care of, I don't see why they wouldn't revert it back soon.

I think they were, actually. Either that or they were randomly chosen.

Ah if you remember, that was actually a bug for a time. If you swayed a vote, you could normally still pick the map you wanted, despite it showing the wrong one.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2013, 04:34:14 pm »
Well I mean, even before map voting, the maps were on a rotation, right? I think that's correct... regardless, it'd be really nice not to have to replay the same map over and over again without switching game :(

They were not on a rotation that I remember. It was either voting, or the same map as it is now. Now that the lobby business is taken care of, I don't see why they wouldn't revert it back soon.

I think they were, actually. Either that or they were randomly chosen.

Ah if you remember, that was actually a bug for a time. If you swayed a vote, you could normally still pick the map you wanted, despite it showing the wrong one.

No... That's not what I'm referring to at all.

Before map voting was implemented (1.1.3 or something like that), you had no power over which map was chosen. I distinctly remember the map changing between matches, so it was either on a rotation or random.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2013, 04:35:43 pm »
Well then my memory has indeed failed me. It's a normal occurrence...

Offline Imagine

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2013, 08:00:11 pm »
Yeah, I thought it was on a regular rotation, maps depending on how many ships vs there was. If nothing else it'd be nice to get that back :)

Offline NikolaiLev

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2013, 04:04:43 am »
Agreed.  Map rotation needs to come back in some form.

As another issue, I believe Anglean Raiders needs to be looked at.  In its current state, optimal play involves playing Squids and avoiding combat entirely.  While this can be fun in itself, it only is for the Pilot and not the crew.  I love objective oriented gameplay, but at the end of the day objectives only exist to facilitate combat in an interesting and strategic manner.

The solution to its unpopularity seems simple to me: remove the center point, C, and adjust the 4 outer points more towards the center of the map, or however it works.  As it stands, you can easily just decapture points while opponents are busy elsewhere, constantly outrunning them unless they're in Squids as well.

And while this is theoretically balanced for two competent teams, it's just not fun for public games, where I feel it could be without sacrificing and strategic depth.  Making only 4 capture points would mean you have to go to the enemy and deploy your forces intelligently to get an advantage.  Maneuvering would still exist, especially through the center portion.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2013, 05:21:43 pm »
Agreed with NikolaiLev on how the meta for Anglean Raiders is skewed towards squids and dodging combat. I think a more interesting solution would be to remove two of the capture points. The most efficient strategy right now seems to be each ship run to capture a point. If one enemy is encountered try to fight them off. If two enemies are encountered run to the undefended point of the enemy team. However if there were just three capture points sending two ships to take a capture point would not leave a capture point undefended.

Offline Lord Dick Tim

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2013, 02:07:29 am »
What if it was like crazy king, but with two active points instead of one on Anglean?
Reduce the amount of points gained from the capture, but also put a stall time between when points are up, also make it random.
This would have the effect that each team would rush for the middle when the capture points turn off, to gain a better position for when they turn back on again.  Since its random which point goes live, the best strat is to always to for the middle and try to hold it, this might bring in some ship diversity as some ships, the galleon, are better at holding a single position but to slow to get a capture.  Disabling would be important over killing to knock another ship down so it can't race for one of the two points when they pop.
Since its 3v3 you'll likely always have some kind of harassment, or unbalanced fight on the map as players try to deny access to the other team while capturing another point.  It could be pretty hectic.

Offline Machiavelliest

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2013, 03:34:31 am »
I really wish the crazy king was random.  The predictable order isn't really crazy at all, and is more annoying than anything.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2013, 09:31:00 am »
I really wish the crazy king was random.  The predictable order isn't really crazy at all, and is more annoying than anything.

At first I always thought it would be too, but they opted for the ordered change so more strategy comes out of it. If they changed randomly, you would need a goldfish/squid to be the most effective, and I imagine they wanted to avoid forcing certain boats on certain maps to win.

Offline Queso

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2013, 09:31:24 am »
Hyper Crazy King: After a random time interval a random number of randomly selected points activate or deactivate. The score you receive for any individual point is randomly assigned and randomly fluctuates over time.

More seriously, the predictability helps with strategy. Otherwise it's true that Goldfish and Squid would win. I personally want to see more old maps converted to crazy king. It's simply more fun. An actual suggestion would be that at around 60 seconds or so and indicator could show up on the next point, but have what the next point to activate be random. That way you can still leave early and get to the next point without being able to predict it months in advance. It would open up new routes to fly on.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 09:33:52 am by Queso »

Offline Machiavelliest

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Re: MAPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2013, 10:17:15 pm »
I really wish the crazy king was random.  The predictable order isn't really crazy at all, and is more annoying than anything.
At first I always thought it would be too, but they opted for the ordered change so more strategy comes out of it. If they changed randomly, you would need a goldfish/squid to be the most effective, and I imagine they wanted to avoid forcing certain boats on certain maps to win.
If the points were closer together, that would also avoid forcing ship choices.