Author Topic: New update  (Read 8215 times)

Offline Lanliss

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New update
« on: May 24, 2016, 04:57:01 pm »
So, anyone played some of the new update? I didn't have a lot of time, so I just did the new tutorials, and found them quite well done. It definitely covered a lot of the things I see most people complain about new players doing, and explained the obvious things with an appropriate level of snark. Has anyone else tried these, and what do you think about them? What about VIP mode, anyone played that yet?

Offline Hoja Lateralus

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Re: New update
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2016, 07:20:06 pm »
I would love some time limit on VIP because it can suffer from long progressless match time more than old CK.

Offline Skymonger

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Re: New update
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2016, 08:14:55 pm »
What i want is for muse to not make the VIP in vipmode so obvious.

Firstly. If you are at the top of the lobby board, then you are automatically the VIP.
Its quite frusterating to have a full crew of level 45s in a squid kite the entire team around for the next 3 hours. And even more frusterating when they KNOW they will be the VIP and ask for the position.


Secondly, DONT have the same VIP for the whole match...
Alternate the ViP every time the VIP dies.
A high leveled squid was hard to kill, dont make us repeat it FIVE MORE TIMES.

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: New update
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2016, 08:46:18 pm »
Quote of me quoting an email I sent Muse...

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I just got done with a VIP dev match in which I was the VIP as a Squid. I cheesed my way out of combat and off the map the entire game. We won 1 to 5 after losing 0 to 1 at the beginning. This map mode is extremely open to abuse so I emailed Muse about it, but then I figured I'd demonstrate. How do I propose we fix it? I'll paste you what I emailed Muse yesterday...

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5. VIP scoring is awful. I tried to help my allies get VIP kills for the beginning of the game, but when I realized they weren't really interested in helping, I just flew around the map the entire game, evading and dodging hwatcha and artemis fire. I lived. I ruined the match purposely by refusing to fight, but I know how to fix it. After countless allied deaths they eventually whittled down and killed the VIP enough for us to win. And that's stupid. We didn't deserve to win. We had no team work. How do you fix it? Easy. EASY.

[This is based on a 3 vs. 3 match]
Make killing the VIP worth 3 points.
Make VIP on VIP kills 5 points. [and please refer to my previous email where I address kill-stealing]
Make killing non-VIP ships worth 1 point.
Set the winning score threshold to 15.

These numbers basically align to your originals, i.e. 5 vanilla VIP deaths will still end the match. But now it won't stalemate because of dicks (like me!). Seriously. Easy. Fixed. Fun. Now I can't avoid the fight for the entire match and still win. I only did it to prove it's going to happen all. The. Time. For 4 vs. 4, you could just change the winning threshold to 20 instead of 15. And I still say get rid of 2 vs. 2 VIP, but you could make that threshold 10. Most people I talked to tonight did not enjoy it***. I mean, it can't hurt keeping it in-game, but the frequency has to be lowered or restricted to custom games. [also, please refer to my previous email about more lobby-creator control in custom matches; Chaos needs to be able to CHOOSE maps and map modes if we're going to keep this fresh; we'd love to have half VIP and half normal matches, but we need to be able to select very specific maps and modes in sequence; please? This benefits everybody! Also, please add names to lobbies again [like the old days] so players know if they've joined a stacked lobby that was opened to the public but is actually a custom lobby.... those bastards).

***I wanna point out that I was saying most people didn't seem to like 2 vs. 2 VIP, but it's popping up constantly. People seem to like the larger VIP modes; I love 3 vs. 3 VIP, and 4 vs. 4 would be wicked cool as well, but we've got to address scoring.

Offline Lu Lu

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Re: New update
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2016, 10:09:50 pm »
Only real complaint I have with the patch is the HUD, everything else is tolerable enough to get along with.

Offline Helios.

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Re: New update
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2016, 06:20:38 pm »
I think the meta for VIP will calm down soon enough, and i think that vip hiding squids will fall out of favor as people realize that the run and hide strategy is horribly killed by a chasing squid or two. i think this might actually be cool to have the meta shift in the direction of fast and maneuverable rather than the static mobula game we have been seeing.

if you are worried about squids running away, bring an escort squid to hunt them down, its not rocket science

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: New update
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2016, 07:22:29 pm »
Exactly, Helios. Our community VIP matches (with people that knew the ropes) generally ended up with a nice spread of pursue and defend ships. Though, Squids were rarely used as rabbits. They were most often used as fast attack VIPs that would get right in the middle of combat to take key kills.

Really, how many matches are people going to play as a rabbit VIP before they realize how mind-dullingly boring it is? Same reason most vets hate Dunes and the camping game. 'Waiting to win' is just not fun.

Offline Nietzsche's Mustache

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Re: New update
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2016, 12:49:30 am »
I agree with most if not all of the above, with regards to the VIP mode. The addition of the sweep rule from the community VIP games would be fun. The VIP killing each of the enemy ships once (including the VIP) once completed amounts to a point for each ship killed plus the extra point for the VIP-on-VIP kill. So, a 2v2 sweep is worth three points, a 3v3 sweep is worth 4 points, and a 4v4 sweep is worth 5 points. This should give the VIP plenty of reason to actually stay in the fight instead of simply avoiding it.

Though I should note that a 3v3 VIP match I ran earlier was mostly dragging out because the team didn't really realize that brawling with the escorts didn't really amount for anything. They were convinced that SHIT WAS GOING DOWN when the only thing that mattered (score wise) was slipping in and out of the game with little consequence. It could yet be that we simply need to establish better metas. I remember when people hated KoTH until we all realized that mines were effective as all get-out. Now most of clan clan will jump at any vote for labby JUST BECAUSE MINES. :P More to the point though, I can see the possibility of VIP being the one game mode where current counterplay is thrown out the window. Reactive builds might counter control in this game mode rather than the other way around. We'll see.

I also wanted to touch on the issue of the removal of the team swapping by way of spectator. I've always been fond of the ability of the community to balance lobbies more effectively than the matchmaker as well as the fact that when the lobby clears out, people will condense down to play with their new friends and make way for the new ships being queued in. This is a pretty clear slight to all of that, so I emailed Muse on the subject and this is what I got back.

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Friend joining will still put you with your friends. We most often saw slot swap abused for people to unbalance games. One new idea we're looking at is allowing slot swaps when the teams are unbalanced. We definitely want to give freedom and control by players, but complete control gives rise to worse balanced lobbies.

Without touching on whether or not it is statistically the case the people swap teams to unbalance a lobby that somehow the matchmaker may have miracled into existence in the first place, is anyone else insulted by the notion that the GoIO community is some herd of base-instinct heathens that has to be controlled and manipulated for it's own good? C'mon, we're all just people that want to play a game and team up with whomever we want, whenever we want. The fact that people already are working around this by leaving lobbies and rejoining through the friends list is an indicator of the fact that we're just going to do whatever we want and Muse's efforts to control that is simultaneously agitating and futile.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 12:53:17 am by Nietzsche's Mustache »

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: New update
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2016, 03:54:11 am »
Without touching on whether or not it is statistically the case the people swap teams to unbalance a lobby...

I've said it many times, including to Muse, and I'll say it here again: it isn't the case. I've never seen people unbalance lobbies in that way. Like, ever. Lobbies get unbalanced because lobbies die (because of awful rematching standards/practices) and reforms restack the teams. I would love to know what evidence Muse has of this alleged spectate-swap "abuse," because I've played my fair share of matches, and this is news to me.

Offline ZnC

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Re: New update
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2016, 05:40:57 am »
Without touching on whether or not it is statistically the case the people swap teams to unbalance a lobby...

I've said it many times, including to Muse, and I'll say it here again: it isn't the case. I've never seen people unbalance lobbies in that way. Like, ever. Lobbies get unbalanced because lobbies die (because of awful rematching standards/practices) and reforms restack the teams. I would love to know what evidence Muse has of this alleged spectate-swap "abuse," because I've played my fair share of matches, and this is news to me.

I agree with jedi here. It is blatantly obvious to the entire lobby when anyone, especially a high level, tries to stack the lobby like that. The real problem is when clanmates/friends want to play together and 'stack' the lobby with no team scrambles.