Author Topic: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes  (Read 26014 times)

Offline Dementio

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2016, 02:14:50 pm »
To be fair, if you really want somebody to be on the same team as you, there is a crew formation. Matchmaking's job is to create balanced lobbies, which is difficult with a low playerbase, switching around destroys the balance. Swap slot is still possible though and is a more fair solution, as the other person has to accept the shift of balance created by swapping around.

Offline BobDoleReigns

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2016, 04:04:34 pm »
To be fair, if you really want somebody to be on the same team as you, there is a crew formation. Matchmaking's job is to create balanced lobbies, which is difficult with a low playerbase, switching around destroys the balance. Swap slot is still possible though and is a more fair solution, as the other person has to accept the shift of balance created by swapping around.

Except the part where there is literally no reason to matchmaking beyond 'lets get these players in a game asap' which is perfectly fine and working as intended.

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2016, 06:07:01 pm »
Gunner tutorial:

How to spam V commands at pilot - Vital

The existence of range as one of the most important aspects of the game - Meh, they'll figure it out on their own

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2016, 07:02:28 pm »
Stop thinking like a person that knows how to play the game with people that know how to play the game. Communication is more important than range to novices, especially to pilots. Shooting before you are in range is much less of a problem than guns not being in arc.

From what I gather (and strongly suggest), there may be more advance training/challenge modes focusing on different aspects of the game. This intro is just general stuff. A range specific training challenge (for each gun even) would be much more conducive to good gameplay than jamming it into a short tutorial that most people will just want to skip.

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2016, 07:19:52 pm »
Advanced training modes would be great, but it wouldn't be a huge addition to have a brief mention of range in the initial gunners tutorial. It could be as simple as one target spawning further away and a prompt to use lesmok ammo to hit it, which would double as an introduction to the effects of one of the main ammo types.

Offline BobDoleReigns

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2016, 09:24:59 pm »
To readdress the point... this patch is utterly gamebrteaking and goi is not worth playing until its rectified... but of course muse is blissfully unaware pof how bad they screwed up so we're gonna lay down some scenarios/situations

1.) I join a game and its a 2v2 with my side having a complete stacked ship and one decent. On the other side you've got plebs who don't know the difference between a carro and a minno... I don't care about my w/l I d not want to play a 10m waste of a match noobstomping but I'm unable to switch and help them thus I leave and reque.

2.) I join a nearly full game and mm stick me on a boat with someone I utterly hate to fly with. I have no options to switch to a perfectly fine open slot the other side. I leave and reque.

3.) I'm tired of playing with randoms and see my bud  is playing. I click Join crew but their crew is already full. Now I'm stuck on a boat with a bunch of random people but hey look, there is an open captains slot on my bud's team... oh wait. I leave and reque.

4.) I actually manage to find a bearable game and play a match. I see a ship struggling. I think to myself, I'm gonna go fly with these clowns next match to try to help them out. Shuffle happens and they're on the otherside the next match. I may not necessarily reque but the entire game is worse for it.

5.) I'm flying with my friend, one of my other friends is on the other team. He's captaining when two first match people hop on his ship. Ok, I'm a nice guy... I'll go help engy so they can maybe live long enough to learn something... oh wait... He gets understandably frustrated and reques.

6.) I like being on the red team the matchmaker puts me on the blue team. I leave and reque.

7.) You are playing late at night and you've got openings on both sides and one player too many on one side. No problem, they switch to the other side and someone searching for a match as a full crew will drop in... oh wait. Now the whole lobby will have to wait god know how much longer (during the wee hours potentially a very long hr+ time) or the lone person who is likely already a new player without friends or reason to play the game could be a good sport about it an go to the spectate slot allowing a full crew to join and the game... except now there is no spot for them. They leave the match and don't bother requiring because you know what? the game is kindof like the life they are playing the game to escape from. Everyone is in a hurry and wants to maximize their own satisfaction leaving no room for the poor unwanted noob. We'll skip the sad part and just leave it at little Johnny didn't make it.

8.) I've been requeing for 30m trying to find a game which was difficult enough back when everyone had freedom to play as they want. I'm tired and decide I'd rather play literally anything besides this piece of crap. I'm so frustrated that I write bad reviews so that hopefully nobody will ever waste their money on this game with such egregiously out of touch developers.




But while we're here lets go over some lifestyle choices this change doesn't effect and/or encourages

1.) I'm a scumbag who only flys with my l45 friends. I crew form (like muse says this is supposed to encourage) with my l45 friends and we find a match.
1.A) Its a completely lopsided match but who cares we'll just noobstomp and pad our w/l and the other side will have a completely miserable time but who really cares about them because they already bought the game and are hopefully past the 2 hour steam refund period.
1.B) people join the match but are smart enough to see the no fun for anyone disaster imposing. they leave. Some people on the stacked team think ok I'll just go to the other side to get the game rolling... oh wait...

2.) I que into the same game as above. I'm also a piece of scum who cares about my w/l... I want to play on the winning side. I can't thus I leave and reque.

Its not like that adds anything to the game. You weren't taking up slots people wanted before you were cleaning up abandoned slots and balancing the lobby or playing with more enjoyable crews. "Well you can just swap slots derpity chirp de derp." -Muse. Uh oh anybody else see it coming?... Newsflash: you can't swap slots with an empty slot. Regardless... I'm fuming and tired now so more to come...
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 09:41:41 pm by BobDoleReigns »

Offline Lu Lu

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2016, 07:22:31 am »
What ever happened to testing patches before release and taking feedback?  Did you learn nothing after the last big patch? 

Offline Huskarr

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2016, 09:03:32 am »
What ever happened to testing patches before release and taking feedback?  Did you learn nothing after the last big patch?

Testing happened every Saturday. The weekend before the patch every day.  We tested mainly VIP. And everyone was encouraged to test the tutorials.

What else would you have wanted tested? No balance changes were made.

Offline The Mann

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2016, 09:15:11 am »
What ever happened to testing patches before release and taking feedback?  Did you learn nothing after the last big patch?

Huskarr has a point,

Testing typically takes place, friday, saturday and sunday.

Furthermore, All we knew about was the gameplay - VIP and Skyball.

There was no testing involving features such as Spectate and thus the testing sessions should not be accountable for that.

Personally, those testing sessions showed me a tonne of bugs and I sent in a lot of feedback, thanks to that, you can actually play on City Hunt without spawning inside a building. 

Offline Keyvias

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2016, 10:01:21 am »
@ BobDoleReigns
Hello!
You've put in a lot here and definitely thank you for the specific use cases (which I'll get to in a second.)
The major reason that spectator swapping existed was we used to not have a system swap option. So if we didn't have the spectator swap you would have to stay there. It was basically a bug that we let become a feature because we didn't build a better tool until later. With ship and slot swapping in game though we wanted to remove something that is OFTEN abused for making balance worse and stomping. You are right sometimes people use it for noble ends, but that is not always the case, but hopefully those people will use slot and ship swap for the same end.

1.) You can use ship or slot swap, all it adds is one of those players agreeing to swap, which if the lobby was full already you'd have to anyways.

2.) If this is the case, yes, or use custom game to instantly join a lobby

3.) If there's a slot on his team open, you can simply rejoin on him and it should choose his team (in order, his ship, his team, other team.) If that's not the case then its a bug.

4.) Again, ship and slot swap are there.

5.) Oddly specific situation. You could swap yourself or one of your friends over with the swap slot feature or add the new player as a friend, quit the lobby and join on him.

6.) Yup, sometimes you're going to play the other color.

7.) Or he adds someone on the other side as a friend and joins on them after leaving the lobby. Thus saving Johnny from his apparently lonely and depressing life he didn't make it through.

8.) And that's your right. You are free to think that we have ruined the game for closing a loophole, that you may have used well, but was being abused by many players. And if spectator swapping was all that kept us from being a "piece of shit," then I apologize, we believed, as I listed above, the way to still have a use case for those situations, but if there's any I missed. Please let me know.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 10:02:56 am by Keyvias »

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2016, 11:39:10 am »
Going to agree with Keyvias. Eight situations were given. Out of 100, the other 92 are simply abuse of the system that ends up with team stacking and ships leaving.

If you want choice options when joining MM, join as spectator.

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2016, 12:28:38 pm »
Out of 100, the other 92 are simply abuse of the system that ends up with team stacking and ships leaving.

Wrong. This doesn't prevent stacking. Stacked ships and teams simply don't rematch. Removing this swapping functionality doesn't fix that. You should have seen the absurdity of trying to balance and fill out lobbies last night. So frustrating.

Quote
If you want choice options when joining MM, join as spectator.

Sorry, but what? You're advocating I should search for matches using matchmaker, then choose to be on blue or red? Doesn't that seem completely screwed up to you?

Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2016, 12:48:05 pm »
Also, this change kinda fucks up joining a lobby before match in Custom Game view.

Offline Keyvias

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2016, 01:04:52 pm »
@Schwalbe,

A very interesting note, if you join a matchmaking game through the custom game menu it actually does try to put you in based on balance. So if your goal is to join a match with balance in mind, the system is already attempting doing that
Again though if you join off friend join it still prioritizes you to your friends crew/team

Offline Lieutenant Noir

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Re: Version 1.4.6 Release Notes
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2016, 01:06:10 pm »
If you want choice options when joining MM, join as spectator.

Shhhh