Author Topic: Guns of Icarus VODs  (Read 8694 times)

Offline Urz

  • Member
  • Salutes: 75
    • [MM]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Guns of Icarus VODs
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2016, 01:57:07 am »
Was not intending to post again, but since Keyvias (of Muse Games) has decided to try and publicly throw me under the bus, instead of letting sleeping dogs lie, I'll share my perspective.

I run a YouTube channel called Community eSports, which is where the majority of all competitive Guns of Icarus footage exists. I created this channel back in 2013 while I was organizing GOIO events, since I felt it was important to preserve the game's competitive history, and other tournament organizers were not doing it at the time (most still don't). In addition to footage from events I've personally run, I reached out to other streamers of the 2013 era events (Fjords, Cogs, Hemlock-Rejkva) and got permission to upload their footage as well, so it wouldn't be lost. Until last week, I was editing and uploading all the footage coming out of the Sunday Community Skirmish.

In February of this year, I contacted Ayetach (of Muse Games) and asked if a link to the Community eSports channel could be added to the Guns of Icarus Online splash screen. Ayetach suggested having a forum thread instead, since it wouldn't be fair to showcase only my channel. I agreed, and he said "Boca" ("Bureau of Competitive Affairs", the collective of forum members Muse decided to put in charge of developing the competitive GOIO scene, who ran one event at the end of last year and have done nothing since then) would make that thread.

A few days pass, no thread from "Boca", so I ask Ayetach if I should make the thread myself, and he says "yeah".

I go ahead and make this thread, ask Ayetach if it meets their standards, and his exact response is - "If you’re cool with adding more as we go or myself helping add more where its warranted then yeah looks great!", which I took to mean that if I kept it up-to-date he would not interfere, or at least contact me before he did so.

One week later, I go to check a reply in the thread, and find that all the formatting has been removed, and a number of links have been inserted into the list in a seemingly random order, completely destroying any organization which had been present. I get back in contact with Ayetach, tell him I'm not cool with the changes he's made, and more or less "go off" on him. He tells me that he won't interfere again, but the thread will not be added to the splash screen, and will have sticky status revoked.

Almost two months go by, and I've been keeping the thread up-to-date with new VODs. One day I come here to update the thread, and find that Keyvias has (once again with no contact to me) decided to clone it, along with the changes Ayetach made to my thread previously (at least they are in chronological order this time). This new thread by Keyvias is, of course, stickied.

So what were the changes that Ayetach made, and why did I (Urz) "rebuke" them?

The entire point of adding match footage to the splash screen was to promote the competitive Guns of Icarus scene, exposing the footage we've worked together on to a greater audience, and hopefully bringing some new competitors in.

To achieve this goal - we should put our best foot forward, which means showcasing the highest level of competition, and the highest production values. This is why I separated out the "Major Tournaments". We want to entice new players/viewers by showing them our coolest shit first. Two hours of unedited footage of an open lobby that someone happened to record is not compelling content.

Ayetach's (and Muse's) position is that all events should be represented equally, regardless of quality. This stance ultimately stunts advancement of the scene, because in addition to not holding our best wares in front of us for passers-by: the people who put the most work in, and produce the best results, are not rewarded.

This is just another entry in Muse Game's historical obliviousness towards building their competitive community:
  • Continually fucking up the balance of the game, with a flawed methodology built on statistics-without-context. Only after three years of community pushback are they finally revising their model.
  • It took two years (of me and others whining about it) before there was an event list in the game client.
  • Trying to push everyone to the (totally irrelevant) MLG GameBattles platform, which was (predictably) a complete failure.
  • Absolute refusal to include in their marketing plans any personalities who play games on a competitive level.
  • Offloading competitive development to the "Bureau of Competitive Affairs", a group of equally oblivious community members who fell flat on their face right out the gate, and who's "major tournament" (Blood and Brass Battle Royale) was only able to attract six teams. To what extent that result can be attributed to "Boca's" own failings, or to Muse for whittling down the competitive scene over the years, I'll leave as an exercise for the reader.
This last example (and first, chronologically) is a story of Muse slighting me personally, and the start of a strained relationship I've had with a few members of their team.

In mid-2013, Qwerty2jam, PapaParadox, and myself, hot off the heals of the "Icarus Sky Tournament" (the first event I organized, which Qwerty and Papa casted), decided to build a structured league. We spent a few weeks hammering out the details on Skype, and eventually posted a large concept and rules document entitled "Community eSports".

The proposal was summarily rejected by the community. There were legitimate problems with the format itself, and the consolidation of power was clearly unwanted. The idea was shelved.

(Since I came up with the name, I later adopted it as an umbrella brand for my other events.)

A few months go by, and Keyvias makes a post detailing the "new competitive scene", which as you've probably guessed, was them completely co-opting our design and presenting it as a wholly original idea. No acknowledgement that it was based on our work, no attempt to reach out and get our thoughts on why we didn't pursue it previously, or how it could have been improved.

"Muse's" league ran for one season. Nobody signed up for the second.

Is that why I made this post? Is the reason I'm fed up with Muse Games because of the disrespect they've shown me personally, after my efforts to promote and expand the playerbase of their game?

Yes, but also no.

I made this post because of Muse Game's greatest sin towards us - it's their game, they have all the power, and they've refused to use it for the betterment of competitive Guns of Icarus. Between ignoring the feedback and concerns of prominent community members, and delegating competitive development tasks to people who are clueless, they've destroyed any chance that GOIO will ever be more than it is now.

Offline ZnC

  • Member
  • Salutes: 40
    • [♫]
    • 45 
    • 43
    • 31 
    • View Profile
Re: Guns of Icarus VODs
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2016, 08:48:55 am »
Alright so...

Hope I'm not butting in wrongly, but:
1. Muse trusted Urz to come up with an official list
2. They didn't like the formatting so they edited it (without telling him)
3. Urz didn't like the changes so he edited it back
4. Clash of vision
5. Muse made an official one themselves

@Muse: If you trust someone to do something, try not to edit their work without notice. I noticed this has happened a couple of times in the past. Even if they disagree, at least inform them first. Then, figure out if it'd be better to move on your own. You guys still have the final say on all things official. Although, it would be really nice to give Urz credit since he did propose and come up with the initial list.

Realistically, the people who're gonna watch the VODs are the participants, their mates, and other competitive players. GOI has a barrier where if you don't play and know the game, it is difficult to enjoy watching it. My opinion is that there is no need to separate the events. Just listing them chronologically as they happened keeps it clean and simple.

Peace

Offline Ayetach

  • Muse Games
  • Salutes: 77
    • [Muse]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Guns of Icarus VODs
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2016, 11:04:03 am »
Hi Urz,

I'm glad you responded and laid out your points for us to understand your perspective more clearly. First off you have been an awesome contributor to the community in the form of recorded footage and helping out where you can in events. But I do want to point out some of the points you made in your interpretations of the events that transpired so we're both on the same page.

When you approached me about creating a Vods list we both were in agreement that something should be done to make all of the footage more accessible to the public. So I contacted Boca like I said in that conversation and they set out to put together a list, and yes it did take some time for them to compile the list when they were able to sit down and do it. Following a few days you did come back to me to follow up on this matter. You suggested a proposed thread that was already completed with links. Since Boca was already gathering information my rationale was "Okay we got a thread here that we can get started with and we’ll just add more of the content from what the Boca folks find as well to continue growing it", so I offered to pin your thread on the condition that we, and by that I mean Muse staff, were at liberty to make changes to that thread since we both had goodwill about the purpose of this.

Following your post I did end up adding more footage and arranged the categorization format, the changes you mentioned were made to your thread. Be mindful that I don’t make these changes without conferring with fellow staff to be sure this is suitable. The use of the format you initially put up for the events, with the major and minor categories, was deemed unnecessary as the work everyone puts into these events is just as appreciated even if participation for them varies. You might disagree with this, but this is indeed one thing Muse wishes to maintain as we appreciate all of our players efforts and contributions to events and competitions.

You did contact me following the changes claiming I had no right to do this and in our discussion I explained our rationale on the changes and reminded you that these changes were among the points we discussed and agreed might happen. I do admit that I didn’t notify you immediately following the changes and I do apologize for that. Since you insisted that the Vods should be listed differently than how Muse framed it I simply responded in offering you to keep your thread, which you had reverted already, and carry on with business as usual. This is no problem for any of us but I did add that we would have to unpin it as we didn't want to endorse this kind of design, this again was something discussed internally and agreed upon.

We did intend on leaving this alone and keeping the status quo, but a little later on Keyvias was tasked with putting together a Vod list following that and referenced the information Boca had gathered along with many of those video links that you had from your thread for a format that we originally wanted. This was also a decision we made to maintain the list with a staff posting so that it would be easier to edit our own posts than to appear to meddle in other people's posts even if there was an understanding between both parties that this was okay.

I want to underline that although there was confusion over how all of this should have been presented, in the end you were free to persue your own format following our departure in discussions over the disagreement. We simply added the version we have posted because there was a request made internally to have it established. I am personally very sorry that I let you get confused in this process and if you or anyone else have questions about this you are welcome to post those here or at feedback@musegames.com. I would be more than willing to help set the record straight for anyone who had a misinterpretation and/or disagreement on this matter.

~A.

Offline Lueosi

  • Member
  • Salutes: 56
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Guns of Icarus VODs
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2016, 11:25:41 am »
Ok guys, I find it nice that you all comment here, but please don't derail the thread. If there is anything that needs to be added or commented please find another place, because here are actually "Guns of Icarus VODs" (not like in the very minimalistic and unordered copy&pasted pinned thread). Thanks!

@Spud Nick: The footage was partially broken, but we are working to get it up asap. SCS #99 is on the way too.

Offline Morbie

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 22
    • [Sexy]
    • 43 
    • 43
    • 43 
    • View Profile
Re: Guns of Icarus VODs
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2016, 01:57:41 am »
I know i'm not really around anymore, but @Urz, thank you for preserving The Fjords on your channel. Means a lot man :)

Offline Lueosi

  • Member
  • Salutes: 56
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Guns of Icarus VODs
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2016, 05:04:33 am »
Sunday Community Skirmish #99 VODs

Bracket: http://goiocommunity.challonge.com/SCS99

Stream 1 commentary by nanoduckling & Huskarr
Stream 2 commentary by Admiral Obvious & Lysanya

Full playlist with spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-GU-JAq63o5GLW-vXSxcbhOyUnurseCx

Offline Huskarr

  • Member
  • Salutes: 29
    • [Rydr]
    • 32 
    • 45
    • 42 
    • View Profile
Re: Guns of Icarus VODs
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2016, 08:41:51 am »
YAY \O/ now everyone can enjoy my awkwardness

Offline Lueosi

  • Member
  • Salutes: 56
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Guns of Icarus VODs
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2016, 07:48:46 am »
Sunday Community Skirmish #103 VODs

Bracket: http://goiocommunity.challonge.com/SCS103

Stream 1 commentary by Lysanya & WATERitsME
Stream 2 commentary by Sir Steffen & The Mann

Full playlist with spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-GU-JAq63o71skV1rUexJt2XM9BCaunh


Missing SCS in between are either only partially uploaded at this point or still in progress. Sorry for the delay.

Offline Captain Scrobeard

  • Member
  • Salutes: 11
    • [ooc]
    • 19 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Guns of Icarus VODs
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2016, 02:57:36 pm »
Sunday Community Skirmish #103 VODs

Bracket: http://goiocommunity.challonge.com/SCS103

Stream 1 commentary by Lysanya & WATERitsME
Stream 2 commentary by Sir Steffen & The Mann

Full playlist with spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-GU-JAq63o71skV1rUexJt2XM9BCaunh

Thanks for recording and uploading the unstreamed matches aswell!

Offline Lueosi

  • Member
  • Salutes: 56
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Guns of Icarus VODs
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2016, 05:26:01 pm »
Sunday Community Skirmish #100 VODs

Bracket: http://goiocommunity.challonge.com/SCS100

Stream commentary by Kajros & Lysanya

Full playlist with spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-GU-JAq63o61POd8bk3TpKKnxSFaTVPU



Sunday Community Skirmish #101 VODs

Bracket: http://goiocommunity.challonge.com/SCS101

Stream 1 commentary by Guagadu & Solidusbucket
Stream 2 commentary by nanoduckling & WATERitsME

Full playlist with spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-GU-JAq63o76l8dhmOKvRnHOCuU70JAl



Sunday Community Skirmish #102 VODs

Bracket: http://goiocommunity.challonge.com/SCS102

Stream 1 commentary by Solidusbucket
Stream 2 commentary by Sliced And Diced & Lysanya

Full playlist with spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-GU-JAq63o4FOFnL3RiU-cft5QNqcHAM

Offline Lueosi

  • Member
  • Salutes: 56
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Guns of Icarus VODs
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2016, 06:27:42 am »
Sunday Community Skirmish #104 VODs

Bracket: http://goiocommunity.challonge.com/SCS104

Stream 1 commentary by Guagadu & Lysanya
Stream 2 commentary by Sir Steffen & nanoduckling

Full playlist with spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-GU-JAq63o74p98r5u7sSqsn2A3hF0wD



Sunday Community Skirmish #105 VODs

Bracket: http://goiocommunity.challonge.com/SCS105

Stream commentary by Guagadu & Grimick

Full playlist with spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-GU-JAq63o5K68uW_rWgx5rMP2MAcOI8

Offline Lueosi

  • Member
  • Salutes: 56
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Guns of Icarus VODs
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2016, 05:17:53 pm »
Sunday Community Skirmish #106 VODs

Bracket: http://goiocommunity.challonge.com/SCS106

Stream 1 commentary by Lysanya & WATERitsME
Stream 2 had technical difficulties and didn't get recorded/streamed

Full playlist with spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-GU-JAq63o6dcQn1Jq5lpmzD2QVgCDJL



Sunday Community Skirmish #107 VODs

Bracket: http://goiocommunity.challonge.com/SCS107

Stream 1 commentary by Lysanya & WATERitsME
Stream 2 commentary by Nietzsche's Moustache & Sir Steffen

Full playlist with spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-GU-JAq63o5RlDQox-ybEIeawthf6STj



Sunday Community Skirmish #108 VODs

Bracket: http://goiocommunity.challonge.com/SCS108

Stream 1 commentary by Guagadu & Grimick
Stream 2 commentary by Lysanya & Sir Steffen

Full playlist with spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-GU-JAq63o50IxFcgBxA6u3iDfCvJrlj

Offline Guagadu

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 16
    • [Grim]
    • 16 
    • 45
    • 28 
    • View Profile
    • Guagadu: Twitch
Re: Guns of Icarus VODs
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2016, 09:51:37 pm »
Sunday Community Skirmish #109 VODs

Bracket: http://goiocommunity.challonge.com/SCS109

Stream 1 commentary by Guagadu & Lysanya
Stream 2 commentary by Nietzsche's Mustache & WATERitsME

Full playlist with spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-GU-JAq63o7PHFmtX6iG1utM9Y9jYuP5