Author Topic: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"  (Read 58046 times)

Offline Letus

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #120 on: March 23, 2016, 12:31:07 pm »
Jedi said many things I would.  (I really need to email more,) but I'd just add one thing about Squid since he stated he wasn't a Squid Pilot:
The rear gun change makes it heavily leathal in open maps...'cause all you have to do is fly straight and brake, and unlike Paritan Rumble or Canyon, in the open maps, you don't have to worry about running into a wall.  I know many don't fly like me...I rarely phoenix claw, but the deal is Tar Barrel.

With the old gun...if you were to use them...it was an awkward position and rather hard to judge, and using a tar barrel for your disabling power required a quite bit of turning and throtteling...as you had to line up your butt onto their face...but with the gun angled slightly, you can keep your Squid Straighter, which allows for easier escape (as if Squid escaping wasn't easy before.)

This means you can have two Gatling guns and a mortar with your initial pass being an armour strip, only to unleash a pile of tar and mortar practically on top of them because...shooting squids require guns pointing at them...but suddenly, they have tar in their face that they couldn't escape from...and a gat mortar.

So before, if I was running a gat + banshee + gat + tar barrel, the tar barrel was often a hit and miss as it would form with enough time for a pilot to go "oh shit" and turn away....meaning that a hit was a pass into a reverse into a tar, which could...because I suck...kill my engines.

I have no clue if any of this is making sense...

Followed by the speed.  I love the speed...almost feel like the old squid again (though still not the same turning.)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 12:40:08 pm by Letus »

Offline ZnC

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #121 on: March 23, 2016, 03:13:14 pm »
Well, I guess premature patching was good since Muse probably got a ton of feedback (and rage) :D.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 03:15:39 pm by Zanc »

Offline Norm von Luftballons

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #122 on: March 25, 2016, 09:47:45 pm »
I would hate to see the Mobula lose its one agile aspect and become an immobile weapons platform. If it is overperforming, I don't see why a simple armor or hull nerf is out of the question. Otherwise, I don't dislike the Mobula changes. The outward arcs make Artemis builds slightly less efficient, at least, and the close range capabilities of the ship have been significantly reduced as well. I doubt you could eradicate the "meta" builds without doing something drastic and potentially damaging to balance elsewhere, like making the Artemis a less desirable choice. The current Mobula is weaker and that is enough to wait and see how win percentage results may change.

And for those like Atruejedi with pet Mobula builds, you can now overlap two Mercs on a wing with an Artemis up top and create a new "trifecta." It's actually easier to do than before, at least if you're not wedded to the light flak as your finisher of choice. I doubt any such plan could ever be considered "good" simply because of how far it throws out the basic repair setup of the ship, but I would not say that you've, ahem, "destroyed fun."

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #123 on: March 25, 2016, 11:10:33 pm »
The 'Hades Funhouse' build (which has actually seen some competitive use) is no longer viable. It was a very high skilled build to fly with high risk/reward. Also a lot of fun. It was also the only Mobula I flew. Nothing left but boring builds now. So, yes, destroyed fun for people that don't fly metemis Mobs.

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #124 on: March 26, 2016, 12:28:35 am »
I dont' see what's wrong with destroying mobula's up/down capabilities if another ship replaces it (spire)

shit: I would much rather have a spire go up/down really fast than a mob. That thing has a heavy weapon. Do you realize how kick ass it would be to have the ability to do long range WITH A LUMBERJACK. You would be able to DODGE properly  while still BEING BALANCED because of the spires frame.

The spire is perfect for Up/Down

I really hope muse at least tries it. it is so fitting.

please try it, muse

just alter the value

I know it only takes about 40 minutes. please. please!

Offline Norm von Luftballons

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #125 on: March 26, 2016, 01:18:13 am »
The Spire is already fairly insane on close combat maps like Canyon and Paritan. Not sure how it could possibly be made okay to be a vertical mobility monster while still retaining its pivoting ability.

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #126 on: March 26, 2016, 01:25:50 am »
The Spire is already fairly insane on close combat maps like Canyon and Paritan. Not sure how it could possibly be made okay to be a vertical mobility monster while still retaining its pivoting ability.

By reducing its acceleration and top speed capability.

Now you have the equivalent of the galleon except goes up/down and turns for the trade off of broadside (easier to flank) and armor/hull (easier to kill)

I see no issue.

As Jedi stated. It is a fucking turret.

I'm sure someone here besides me know's the capabilities of a mounted weapon.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 01:27:38 am by Solidusbucket »

Offline Norm von Luftballons

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #127 on: March 26, 2016, 01:37:41 am »
"Easier to flank" seems to be a slightly optimistic assessment for a theoretical ship that could turn on a dime and ascend and descend effortlessly.

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #128 on: March 26, 2016, 02:19:33 am »
A little late and absent but I would like to echo just how on point Atruejedi was in his document.

Offline Huskarr

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #129 on: March 26, 2016, 04:54:17 am »
I dont' see what's wrong with destroying mobula's up/down capabilities if another ship replaces it (spire)

shit: I would much rather have a spire go up/down really fast than a mob. That thing has a heavy weapon. Do you realize how kick ass it would be to have the ability to do long range WITH A LUMBERJACK. You would be able to DODGE properly  while still BEING BALANCED because of the spires frame.

The spire is perfect for Up/Down

I really hope muse at least tries it. it is so fitting.

please try it, muse

just alter the value

I know it only takes about 40 minutes. please. please!

If I remember correctly the spire should have amazing up and down acceleration and speed lore wise.  The Spire is a Baronies border "patrol" ship. It sits in the bottom of a small valley and waits for other ships to come and then rises to their level and finishes it of. A higher armor value would also be useful for this kind of ship, because if you loose the armor and receive perma damage you won't be able to run to the mechnic shop. The Spire would have good turning capabilities because of physics (just like the balloon) and because it would be facing many fast ships (Anglean raiders should have fast ships imo for raiding and the Chaladonian's developed the squid and the shrike).

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #130 on: March 26, 2016, 05:03:23 am »
And for those like Atruejedi with pet Mobula builds, you can now overlap two Mercs on a wing with an Artemis up top and create a new "trifecta." It's actually easier to do than before, at least if you're not wedded to the light flak as your finisher of choice. I doubt any such plan could ever be considered "good" simply because of how far it throws out the basic repair setup of the ship, but I would not say that you've, ahem, "destroyed fun."

My "pet" build was two mercs on one side and a light flak on the top middle. Now the only option for the top is... an Artemis. Joy. Yipee. Huzzah.

Fun destroyed. I shouldn't be shoe-horned into taking an Artemis on the top if I want to try a long range build on one side.

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #131 on: March 26, 2016, 05:28:31 am »
The shape of the spire would balance its being given high vertical acceleration in some less obvious ways too, when going up it cant get its guns to the height ceiling like the mobula can because of the height of its balloon above even the top guns, going downwards it has the problem of being about 30m closer to hitting the ground than it feels like.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #132 on: March 26, 2016, 05:31:17 am »
The shape of the spire would balance its being given high vertical acceleration in some less obvious ways too, when going up it cant get its guns to the height ceiling like the mobula can because of the height of its balloon above even the top guns, going downwards it has the problem of being about 30m closer to hitting the ground than it feels like.

Speaking of, does the galleon suffer the same issue aswell?

And if so, does this mean squid can get it's guns higher than almost any other ship?

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #133 on: March 26, 2016, 05:32:29 am »
Yes (which is why squids can sit on top of a galleon's balloon at height ceiling. I think. I don't actually know other than from playing the game.)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 05:36:27 am by Solidusbucket »

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: 1.4.5 New Balance Changes "When Ambush Comes To Shove"
« Reply #134 on: March 26, 2016, 05:56:08 am »
Yes (which is why squids can sit on top of a galleon's balloon at height ceiling. I think. I don't actually know other than from playing the game.)
I'm pretty sure galleons can momentarily bypass the flight ceiling from posture + weight alone, just like how they're extremely resistant to the trade winds.