How would YOU nerf the Mobula?

[MightyKeb]

Banshee is already borderline more useful than the flamethrower at setting fires, buffing the explosive damage instead would make it contest the Mortar, and mortar is already an insanely powerful option and would be overpowered if not for it's arc and range related weaknesses. I'd be down with an accuracy buff though, make it useful mid-long range. A banshee does 400 balloon damage per clip excluding fire stacks (Which is what you get when the enemy's balloon is chemmed). Stack 3 of them and you get a whopping 1200 damage, that'll leave the enemy balloon at 250 HP if the balloon is malleted during the proccess, this is excluding the fire stack attribute of banshee. This is even excluding buffed greased triple banshee (1498.8 damage to balloon per clip!)

 This means 3 banshees combined is effectively the closest you can get to a Lumberjack with light guns. Buffing the accuracy of banshee's accuracy would buff some of the builds that heavily rely on it for long range aswell as opening up a new option for the current long range meta.


Otherwise, I'd just lean towards nerfing the Mobula's hull to 550. I feel that having a moderately durable armor/balloon is very important for mobula and allows the Do I repair - Do I shoot decision making mechanic to be smooth on mobula. Overnerfing the armor would ruin it as the hull engi has to run back to the component every 2 seconds everytime something sneezes on it, which prevents it from getting the trifectas it needs unless the engagement is perfect. Why bring a mobula at all then? I would not nerf it's armor below 500. It's also going to make it easier to tank with if you lower the hull too much, same with making it too hard to tank with higher than 600 armor due to the increased rebuild time but being able to win against almost anything so long as you dont get a particularly bad engagement.

On the other hand, 550 hull value is a very important and understated threshold in hull values. One burst artemis clip does 550 damage, one unbuffed clip of greased banshee does 540 damage. Kill squids will one clip it, other meta mobs will most likely have enough shots to disable it's guns and melt it's hull at the same time, Lumber Flak galleons and other heavy flak ships will insta kill it, double lumber galleon will chip damage it so hard it'll be at 50% after the first armor break, and while the Mobula itself is weak to rams at the moment, it will be weak to gentle breeze rams now, which I think is fair considering that you'll be so disabled that'll be the best you can do if you head on a mob. We already have a glass cannon that tanks with low armor (Spire), so might aswell make something on the opposite end of the spectrum. Again, this breaks the threshold of "Too much armor", which means it can't actually tank well when it's armor goes down because now it's comparatively harder for an engi to get the armor back in time before all it's hull health is depleted, but unlike a straight buff to the armor that doesnt mean it'll win every engage so long as the armor's up, it's still the same mob. Just relies solely on pilot dodging now, which means more balloon/engine tool burning, and burning these tools earlier. And if there's anything I know about mobula verticals, it's that it's not an infinite advantage - It's gone as soon as you burn the balloon. So overall, not only does this change make it fragile in it's originally intended way, but forces the mobula to adapt to the change by being more cautious in times of armor break, thus putting more pressure on itself to expend resources with which it'll hamper it's ability to get back into the fight with.

[GurasOguras]

The amount of perks you gain by taking mobula is too much as for me:

+ Small hull size compared to balloon (Difficult to hit, just like junker. Additionally it's vertical movement will make you hit gatling shots very difficult in comparison to other ships)
+ Range control ability (forward facing guns can shoot while you change your distance to target)
+ Great dodge potential (vertical mobility)
+ Great vertical movement (buffed balloon with stamina equals free hydrogen)
+ Quadfecta is possible
+ Decent durability (can't say the same about pyramidion which is supposed to be front line fighter and mobula should be theoretically glass cannon)
+ 2 secondary guns on wings (makes it possible to use at different range)
+ Components spread across the entire ship makes it invulnerable to heavy disables (no matter direction. even if hwacha attacking from rear the best outcome is to disable only one side of the ship. If you wanna do something serious to it you need very good gunner while against other ships pretty average will be more than enough)
+ Wide ship (Usually ramming mobula from front will leave you very exposed and will actually only help mobula)
+ Ship doesn't even require buffs to be strong, and most of the times even in competitive matches it isn't buffed at all.

Let's compare it to Pyramidion now:

+ Always 2 guns shooting target no matter disabling potential (but requires to be in range of said guns, and disables are still effective from rear or sides)
~ Always someone has time to repair engines (but it means dualfecta for most of the times)
~ Average range control (you still have only 2 guns on front so you have to chose if you wanna be artillery or brawler)

Those last two have their drawbacks, while on mobula it's pure benefit. That's all I can think of that will benefit me from taking pyramidion. Literally all I can think of.
Is there anyone who still wants to argue that Mobula isn't OP? It was like this since the beginning, but back then at least carronades worked.


How I would nerf it? By buffing carronade back again, or move hull to back of the ship where baloon is. The only mobula that we have problem with is that meta cancer, because it's difficult to approach. Brawlmobs are fine, I think.

[Mean Machine]

The amount of perks you gain by taking mobula is too much as for me:

+ Small hull size compared to balloon (Difficult to hit, just like junker. Additionally it's vertical movement will make you hit gatling shots very difficult in comparison to other ships)
+ Range control ability (forward facing guns can shoot while you change your distance to target)
+ Great dodge potential (vertical mobility)
+ Great vertical movement (buffed balloon with stamina equals free hydrogen)
+ Quadfecta is possible
+ Decent durability (can't say the same about pyramidion which is supposed to be front line fighter and mobula should be theoretically glass cannon)
+ 2 secondary guns on wings (makes it possible to use at different range)
+ Components spread across the entire ship makes it invulnerable to heavy disables (no matter direction. even if hwacha attacking from rear the best outcome is to disable only one side of the ship. If you wanna do something serious to it you need very good gunner while against other ships pretty average will be more than enough)
+ Wide ship (Usually ramming mobula from front will leave you very exposed and will actually only help mobula)
+ Ship doesn't even require buffs to be strong, and most of the times even in competitive matches it isn't buffed at all.

Let's compare it to Pyramidion now:

+ Always 2 guns shooting target no matter disabling potential (but requires to be in range of said guns, and disables are still effective from rear or sides)
~ Always someone has time to repair engines (but it means dualfecta for most of the times)
~ Average range control (you still have only 2 guns on front so you have to chose if you wanna be artillery or brawler)

Those last two have their drawbacks, while on mobula it's pure benefit. That's all I can think of that will benefit me from taking pyramidion. Literally all I can think of.
Is there anyone who still wants to argue that Mobula isn't OP? It was like this since the beginning, but back then at least carronades worked.


How I would nerf it? By buffing carronade back again, or move hull to back of the ship where baloon is. The only mobula that we have problem with is that meta cancer, because it's difficult to approach. Brawlmobs are fine, I think.

I will argue Sorry Guras, but first you list all the "strengths" of mobula and then you say that "cancer mobula" is problem and brawlbula is fine. Does that list of "strenghts" not apply for all mobulas, just for meta? I mean, brawl mobula also benefits from slim hull, from great vertical mobility and so on. So, that's why I'm saying it's not so much of a problem with ship itself. It might seem so to a lot of people, but it's other ships that need buffing and maybe some weapons like you mentioned carronade. It's unreasonable to compare pyramidion to mobula in order to show how inferior pyra is, because pyramidion is pretty much inferior to any other ship in the game. It's similar with spire. You don't see spire in competitive not because there are mobulas there, but because spire is weak against most other ships as well or at least it's very risky pick and usually isn't worth the effort and doesn't seem to provide more benefit to the team than it's costing them.

I get a feeling that people are trying to nerf mobula only because they don't like meta mob and think it's too easy to play with and win with it. Well then nerf artemis if that's the problem. It's very powerful gun on every ship, not just mobula. It has good arcs, decent clip, fairly easy to shoot, has all ranges with no arming time, has good disable power and fair explosive damage, it combines well with most other weapons etc...

You say it's difficult to approach them. Well of course, as it should be. Sniper ship of any kind should be difficult to approach with close range ships. If you're in open map you will have hard time approaching any sniping ship, not just mobula. If you're in short range map with a lot of cover, you can approach it same as brawl mobula. Even easier than brawl mobula if you are not spotted. If you're thinking of sniper vs sniper then it is what it is, like I said, someone has to fill the role of being best sniper ship and it happens to be mobula. But if we're taking metamobula then even that is not true. For pure sniping galleon is probably good candidate to beat mobula. With lumberjack and mercury you can easily outrange those artemises. And even in max artemis range it's not very easy to disable components, so mob can have trouble disabling galleons' guns before galleons locks mobula down with lumberjack. If they land few lumberjack shots you can put mobula down enough (even if they have drogue chute) that they won't have artemises in arcs.

[BlackenedPies]

I get a feeling that people are trying to nerf mobula only because they don't like meta mob and think it's too easy to play with and win with it. Well then nerf artemis if that's the problem. It's very powerful gun on every ship, not just mobula. It has good arcs, decent clip, fairly easy to shoot, has all ranges with no arming time, has good disable power and fair explosive damage, it combines well with most other weapons etc...

People want to nerf the mobula because it's the best ship in the game. There's rarely a situation for me that I should bring another ship over a mobula for the easiest win. I don't bring other ships because they're better, I bring them to keep it interesting. And I never bring meta mob and rarely bring even one artemis

Keep in mind that artemis is the least potent explosive gun dealing only 62% of the hull dps of banshee. I don't bring artemis because they kill slowly and why disable them when you can kill them. The mobula is the best ship for this because it's resistant to being disabled and killed. For reference my two most common builds are buffed charged merc top with left lesmok flak gat, and right heavy clip flare banshee; buffed greased hades (I can preload lesmok), left greased banshee gat, right heatsink/burst/greased flame/flare flak. Both are kitted for max kill dps and make full use of the spanner mallet buff engi top

[MightyKeb]

You say it's difficult to approach them. Well of course, as it should be. Sniper ship of any kind should be difficult to approach with close range ships. If you're in open map you will have hard time approaching any sniping ship, not just mobula.

Actually, this is untrue. When you charge a mobula, the Mobula backs away until it disables and strips you enough that you have to retreat. When you do decide to retreat and/or take cover before you approach, the mob can always move in and finish you off. This is not a trait of every sniper ship, junker is easier to charge because they cant control distance like the mob, galleon is easier to disable on approach, and spire is just easier to straight up kill and disable on approach. It's just a matter of fact that Mobula is the best ship to abuse Hades/Arts with, and this forum is looking for a way to reduce it's effectiveness without reducing Mobula's effectiveness in general so that other builds can be run, and without nerfing the guns so other ships who can't abuse the combination as effectively can still somewhat use them.

[Richard LeMoon]

Heavy Clip can not be restored until a falloff damage is introduced. In my mind, falloff damage would solve a ton of balance problems. All guns could have their ranges and velocities increased and recoil decreased. Heavy clip could be reverted to its laser missile glory. Guns that are OP at all ranges could be nudged [NUDGED MUSE NUDGED!] back at further ranges without just making them hard to hit with (no fun). Artemis, Manticore, and Hades in particular. Maybe Mercury. Gatling for sure (after it is given a couple hundred more meters of range and less jitter). This would nerf the Mobula in a meaningful way without taking away its 'gun platform' aspect.

 
As far as a direct nerf to the Mobula, I would give it two more engines on the top deck behind the wing guns without changing the turning ability. These engines would obviously be harder to keep well repaired while still keeping all guns in arc. This would give it the same problems as the Squid. Then reduce the vertical speed somewhat.

[Mean Machine]

You say it's difficult to approach them. Well of course, as it should be. Sniper ship of any kind should be difficult to approach with close range ships. If you're in open map you will have hard time approaching any sniping ship, not just mobula.

Actually, this is untrue. When you charge a mobula, the Mobula backs away until it disables and strips you enough that you have to retreat. When you do decide to retreat and/or take cover before you approach, the mob can always move in and finish you off. This is not a trait of every sniper ship, junker is easier to charge because they cant control distance like the mob, galleon is easier to disable on approach, and spire is just easier to straight up kill and disable on approach. It's just a matter of fact that Mobula is the best ship to abuse Hades/Arts with, and this forum is looking for a way to reduce it's effectiveness without reducing Mobula's effectiveness in general so that other builds can be run, and without nerfing the guns so other ships who can't abuse the combination as effectively can still somewhat use them.

Why would you charge sniping ship in the first place if they see you coming? Like I said, if they see you coming, it doesn't matter if it's mobula or galleon or even spire, you won't reach that ship safely if it's sniper ship vs close range ship. It shouldn't, otherwise that galleon or spire is doing extremely poor job. In close range maps, it's not hard to approach mobula and you should have not hard time flanking them if you get good positions and coordination. If you flank mobula in close range situation it can only dodge vertically and it can't do it forever of course. If you happen to have carronade you will even strip them of that dodge. Which leaves them with dodging horizontally. How many ships can successfully dodge horizontally? None, it rarely works if enemy gets good engagement. Every ship in the game tries to dodge vertically for the most part, except maybe for galleon because it would not help much. Dodging horizontally in close range maps is mostly not very effective at all anyway. In open maps you can "dodge" by reversing and buy quite some time with that, because you have a lot of space behind you, in close range maps it won't help you that much, because if it's close range engagement, it means the enemy ship is already close to you and they are faster than you can reverse.

Besides, you can't expect to approach mobula from their front side and expect to kill them easily. Of course they will have a good chance to kill or disable you, It's a freaking killing machine with five front guns. You approach them from flank or behind and the results are a lot different. Old pyra certainly didn't have any problem with annihilating ships that were trying to dodge horizontally and it only needed that little bit of speed and hull that now it doesn't have. It was not as sturdy and fast as goldfish or tanky as squid, but it still didn't have problem killing mob that tried to run from it. I think everyone can realize that whatever the range, you don't want to approach mobula with their front side facing you. Just like you won't approach galleon with their broadside facing you and expect to have a good day. Also another point about mobula being able to reverse while junker and galleons can't.... Galleons and junkers are a lot more resistent to flanking than mobula, since they have side guns and can easily turn and shoot wherever the enemy ship is coming from, while mobula will take a while to turn. That is a very important and good advantage in close range maps for galleon and junker.
 
I find it funny that we have mobula for such a long time now and builds haven't change all that much and no one seemed to be bothered by mob before. But recently a lot of people started flying mobula, so BOOM, It's OP now all of sudden

Well guys, after mobula gets nerfed, guess what will happen. Yeah, another ship will take it's place and will be "the best ship in the game". So what we accomplish? Nothing, we enter neverending circle of nerfing, oops "balancing" which consume fun out of game patch after patch. Like I said already, just because it works well, doesn't mean it's op. In every game, let's take fps for example because it's easy one, you will find the most popular and most used weapon. Does that necessary mean it's op? No, not always, it can mean that people found a weapon that is overall good and easy to use and they use it, because you know, a lot of people today play to win. They will use a weapon that they might not actually like the most, but they really want to win.

So again, I'm all for nerfing mob by buffing other ships or weapons like carronade, not by directly nerfing the ship. Not just mobula. I'm talking about mobula here of course because the topic is about mobula, if you wanted to nerf spire for example I would defend spire. Buff other ships.

[Dementio]

It is not hard to charge a Mobula. If you charge directly at them, then of course you won't get very far.

I like how Guras doesn't even try to hide his bias against Mobula. I will let the fact that he tries to compare it to what is said to be the weakest ship in the game, slide.

It is not invulnerable to disable, from the five guns it has, you only need to destroy three or even less if anything already damaged its armor or balloon. It depends on the skill of your gunner to decide what guns he should destroy. Destroying the engines when you behind it is also not that hard.
The wings and tail are armor, so if you engage it from something that is not the front, not even I have trouble breaking that armor.
The Mobula can't repair engines as reliable as most ships, because you need all three or at least two crewmembers to do it.
It cannot tank, if the armor is down it will be down for very long.
It is extremely vulnerable to focus fire, as that will often mean a lot of damage on armor and balloon, because of the AoE of Hades and Banshees, and without the balloon it has nothing going for it.
Also, it's balloon and hull are so close together, AoE will most likely always hit both. Hades and Banshee damaging balloon when hitting hull, explosive guns continuing to damage the hull when hitting the balloon.
It cannot do anything about something behind it.
It is so slow, it literally cannot escape. Going up and down is buying time, not an escape.
Paired with horrendous turning acceleration, it cannot chase and must rely on magical Artemis disables on enemy engines, if they are not behind cover already. The good thing about that, I have to admit, is that it makes Phoenix Claw completely obsolete so there is less damage on the engines. Some people have yet to think about that.
Bad turning and lack of engineer coorperation also makes it extremely vulnerable to mines.

About the buff thing, I want to say that you phrased that incorrectly and even then it isn't something that only goes for the Mobula. Ships become better with buff, the Mobula included. They are all already strong, so are the guns, buffs only make sure you need a little bit less of something to do whatever you want to do. Increasing speed, potential dps and overall survivability. The Mobula is actually the only ship left out of that, as most of the time it is the only ship without buff on anything. Some people do run a third engineer to at least buff the Hades/Gatling and for a little bit before combat begins the engines, but more often than not it is the only ship that doesn't allow people to make it better. The fact that its vertical mobility is so strong does counter the lack of buff rather well, but then again, the engines are so bad that even with buff it may still be worse than most other ships without. That also seems to be a fitting explanation why there is so much Mallet/Spanner on the Mobula balloon, without that, what has it going for it? And buffs on the armor are a no-go, as optimal repairs and fire management are the only real ways to go for.

[Dementio]

Double post, but you know how it is.

The more I actually think about it, the more I see the Mobula as the most balanced (= Mobula OP, obviously). It's weaknesses are so insanely large, that it shifts the meta mindset about the game and has to be approached differently, from enemy ship as well as from when you are piloting and crewing it yourself. Has anybody actually thought about how it's turning acceleration is worse than even the Galleon's, yet people can fly this ship successfully without the assistance of buff? Imagine a lack of buff or phoenix claw on any other ship, except maybe the Squid with the best horizontal mobility, that would be blasphemy! Five guns or not, they are forward facing. The Goldfish, Spire and Pyramidion all have forward facing guns as well and can buff their armor and theoretically use their much higher in comparision speed to fly past their enemy, if they needed to dodge for a second. Yet, these ships still use the claw.

The one thing that saves it's lack of turning might just be the fact that the guns arcs are tilted. turning all the guns straight forward doesn't sound like a bad idea after all. But that will also be another buff to the Squid and Hwacha, and who doesn't want that.

There recently has been a discussion about the Mobula on some twitch chat, in somebody mentioned that the Mobula is always the primary target. I agree on that, but it can't be about the guns, a lot of ships can do trifecta and on some ships it's even stronger (Galleon with OP Lumberjack and instant kill Flak). And some guns are even more dangerous as they do their job much quicker and more effectively than Hades/double Artemis, which are Hwacha, Heavy Carronade and Gat/Mortar. I don't think I responded to that at all back then, but now I would say, it is the primary target, because in focus fire, it dies the quickest. Sure, Hydrogen once is nice, but how often can the Mobula use hydrogen before the balloon is dead or until it and its enemies are on max altitude? Also, if there is focus fire and the Mobula uses hydrogen or chute vent to dodge, the enemy will chase it vertically, which means the Mobula's ally will have to follow the enemy vertically as well, wether that works out for said ally depends on the situation.

As the Mobula is a ship that reacts slowly, it cannot afford to start regreting choices, once it commits to a choice, it has commited, there is no turning back. The one strength it has, the vertical mobility, is the one thing that keeps it in the air, literally too! With the lack of use for the Phoenix Claw, it can indirectly buff that strength with getting two vertical mobility tools or just one with the addition of Drouge Chute. The gravity thing that once was may make the Mobula more rammable against Blenderfish, but allows it to shoot the enemy Lumberjack for even longer.

I want that all the other ships follow the example of the Mobula and get changed appropriately. More diversity in vertical and forward/backwards accelerations as well as top speeds would be a start. Buff ships in ways that they can afford to not take something and still be a good pick.

[nhbearit]

Lol

You do realize that the mobula can back up almost as quickly as some ships can go forward right?

Oh, and once you do close, the vertical acceleration and speed of the mobula let it run circles around any other ship in the game. Squid included. You shouldn't be turning much in a close range engagement, mobulas simply don't need to.

Hull isn't that important in a mob actually, the balloon is life tho. Speaking of which:

Balloon Blocking!

The mobula is the only ship in the game that can effectively balloon block AND fire all guns at the same time. That I don't like.

TL;DR reduce both the vertical acceleration and speed. The Mobula has alot of inherent advantages. It doesn't need the vertical mobility it has.

[Dementio]

The Mobula's acceleration is 4.25m/s². Goldfish 3.50, Junker 4.3, Squid 6.66 an Spire 4.5. A lot of ships that do get behind the Mobula, have enough speed to counter the Mobula's attempt to back up. The Goldfish may not have the speed, but it does have the Hwacha to reduce the speed to 0 or a Carronade to reduce the gun arcs to 0.

Vertical acceleration doesn't mean an enemy is not behind you anymore. I have tried a lot of stuff against a lot of Squids that got behind me, trust me on that one, they glue to me like my own face. Even when a Goldfish doesn't have the base acceleration to keep up with the Mobula backing up, it often has buffed engines, which the Mobula cannot afford and even without that, it does have the top speed, which it will reach shortly. The vertical acceleration only saves me, because said Squids are so close, even a Pyramidion could dodge a bunch of those Banshees with one Hydrogen. Trust me on that one too, but a little less, I dodged a Mobula's Artemis and Mortar shots with a Pyramidion. If other ships get changes on vertical acceleration for more diversity, you would have your vertical acceleration nerf in a different suit.

On the balloon blocking thing I mostly agree with you. But then again, this mostly applies to when using a Gatling after the Mobula has already build up vertical distance and when said Gatling tries to shoot at 100m from the worst possible angle so the spread will either miss the ship compltely or hit only the balloon. Balloon blocking Hades in a Mobula I found to be very frustrating, the AoE still hits the armor and then now even the balloon engineer has to leave the gun to fix something.

[Daft Loon]

You do realize that the mobula can back up almost as quickly as some ships can go forward right?

After accounting for the need to turn slightly sideways to maintain equal numbers of guns a junker advances slower than the mobula can retreat.

TL;DR reduce both the vertical acceleration and speed. The Mobula has alot of inherent advantages. It doesn't need the vertical mobility it has.

Along those lines, swapping the top speeds of the mobula and junker would add another way to try counter it in a similar manner to the squid.

[BlackenedPies]

Buffing other things to nerf the mobula is too complicated and will have side effects. Daniel you say the mob's weaknesses are so insanely large but the truth is the other ships have more/worse weaknesses and the mobula is the least vulnerable ship in the game. When I had my mobula epiphany a year ago I suddenly wasn't scared of anything except multiple fire (hades-banshees). The mob is simply the strongest ship in the game and now more players are realizing it

(insert long paragraph about turning, damage, repairs etc)

Unless other ships need buffs it's too complicated to buff them according to the mobula. Take junker for example. Junker can't fight mob at range because it's too vulnerable to disable. I can't think of a reasonable buff that would let junker fight mob at range. Junker can fight mobs up close by burning in low. This can be used to great effect but if the mob has a single carro then it's too hard for the junker. Buffing junker will only make it better at brawling with mob and against everything the junker is already good at. It won't make nearly as much difference to fighting a mob as fighting other ships. Unnecessary consequences are caused

One more example: fish. I've always said mobs are good against fish and this was as true before the carro nerf after hwatcha buff. For me a hwatcha fish stands no chance against a ranged or brawl mob and the only thing a blenderfish can do is ram into something hard. Before the mob is popped they hydro, then drogue, then immediately hydro. Without terrain a fish can't fight a mob. How do you buff fish to balance mob? Buffing the fish will only make it better against ships it's already good against, and buffing heavy guns will only make them better against ships they're already good against!

Buffs to nerf the mobula doesn't make sense. If a ship needs a buff, buff it. If a ship needs a nerf then the answer isn't to buff everything else. The mob has no natural weakness greater than other ships and it has the most advantages over other ships. If you're gonna buff things to nerf the mob then what will you buff and how will it not adversely effect others?

[HelFyre]

For me a hwatcha fish stands no chance against a ranged or brawl mob

This is the only part of your post that I don't entirely agree on.. hwachafish can fight fairly well (approach as you would with a junker, potentially weakens their position vs your ally, obvious advantage when directly above mobula, increased if their mobility is reduced), though the mobula can make slight specialisations to increase its survivability.

You shouldn't be turning much in a close range engagement, mobulas simply don't need to.

Mobulas do need to turn at close range, that's part of their weakness at close range. You can see this by some quick analysis on the relevant gun arcs and the distance between the guns, if not by experience. Note the high top speed and slow angular acceleration, which means..

[Mean Machine]

You do realize that the mobula can back up almost as quickly as some ships can go forward right?

Did you make that up? Mobulas' top speed is among the worst in the game (only junker is slower) and acceleration is not THAT important, because you never run from enemy without using kerosine or moonshine, so since every pilot uses those it's easy to hit top speed where mobula will start losing against pretty much every ship, not to mention that if mobula tries to run in anything but open space, it can get stuck or bump the terrain a lot easier and it can't get around cover as easy as others ships can, since it has terrible turning speed. Acceleration only comes into play in close range engagement and even there it only really helps if you see enemy coming. If they don't approach you head on, as they shouldn't, then acceleration or top speed won't help you much. There is a reason why every ship in game dodges vertically mostly. Only scenario where top speed and acceleration really helps usually is when you start running from fight (like when your ally dies and you decide to disengage), in which mobula is terrible and usually can't escape this way. So it's actually other ships who benefit from acceleration and top speed more.

Oh, and once you do close, the vertical acceleration and speed of the mobula let it run circles around any other ship in the game.

You can't dodge forever. You can hydro, but so can enemy, the difference is that after that hydro, you can lower altitude faster than other ships and that's only dodge you will usually get before you damage your balloon. If you do the opposite and first dodge down with stamina for example, enemy can still follow you down, especially with healthy, buffed balloon and stamina, after that you can hydro and they can hydro as well. It's just buying time essentially. Sometimes it will save your life, but not always, especially if you get flanked and enemy hurt your balloon in the process. That's all part of turning their strenghts against them. You have plenty of ways to hurt their balloon and thus making them pretty much stuck and unable to properly dodge. Carronade can still do the job, no matter how people cry about it (even though i very much agree it didn't need that nerf). You don't actually have to kill balloon, which you can easily do with lochnagar if you want, but you just have to heavily damage it and they won't be able to dodge.

Squid included.

Squid can't keep up? Please, did you even watch any squids in competitive? I've seen plenty dancing with mob and killing them sooner or later.

You shouldn't be turning much in a close range engagement, mobulas simply don't need to.

Haha, can you please read and think about what you just said?

Hull isn't that important in a mob actually, the balloon is life tho. Speaking of which:

Balloon is life? Well, yes it's pretty much impossible to miss it with any gun, hurt it and there won't be so much life anymore, simple yeah?
Hull might not be top priority on mobula indeed, but if your armor is down, you're very susceptible to get insta killed by rams, heavy flaks, or even suiciding if you dodge into the terrain. Like I already said, you can't dodge forever and if your balloon is not healthy it's even harder to succesfully dodge.
While hull is slim, balloon is huge. Which means once it's broken it's easy to land all the shots that will go straight to the hull. But you already know that.

TL;DR reduce both the vertical acceleration and speed. The Mobula has alot of inherent advantages. It doesn't need the vertical mobility it has.

Take that away and it's not mobula anymore, it's a fat spire. That's like suggesting to take two engines away from squid or one side of guns from junker. Vertical mobility is the most defining "characteristic" of mobula. Why would you want to take away what makes ships unique? And of course it needs that speed. it doesn't have horizontal speed like I already mentioned above, it's clumsy at moving around terrain, it has terrible turning speed, so what's left? Yeah, that's right, vertical mobility.


I very much agree with Daniel that mobula is most balanced ship in the game. It has unique design, it has strenghts and weaknesses, it provides many different possible builds, crew combos and strategies. That for me means it's well balanced. If a ship is only useful with one build or only in one situation or against one type of enemy, then that is IMO not balanced and it's boring and something needs to be done with that ship. Everyone should strive to make muse buff other ships so they are more like mobula, diverse and provide more possible and effective builds and roles that ship can do.