Author Topic: Free-look when aiming guns  (Read 7632 times)

Offline VidyaBro

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Free-look when aiming guns
« on: March 02, 2016, 03:12:29 am »
I couldn't find any threads related to this sort of thing after some searching, but I think it would be a simple yet very intuitive change.

With guns in this game having limited turning speed, it seems to me that letting the player move the camera freely when aiming guns and having the actual gun catch up to the camera--as opposed to having to continuously move the camera to 'drag' the reticle in the desired direction--would greatly improve the 'gunning' experience.

Two reticles could be used to facilitate this: one for the point at which the camera is facing and the other for the current point the actual gun is aimed, with the latter automatically moving to catch up with and overlap the former. In addition, the maximum field of rotation for a gun could also be marked on the player's camera while aiming.

Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2016, 07:44:40 am »
Although this wouldn't be difficult to implement, I'm not very sure if this would not in fact BREAK the flow of gunning, make it more difficult; imagine having to compensate for the case the player looks away from the possible reach of the gun. What would you do then? Make player not being able too look outside the rectangle of a gun reach? This would defeat the reason for implementing the idea in the first place. Allow it? This would in turn prove infuriating, when you look at the ship, and you can't be freaking sure where the gun points.

No, I'd say this is not the best idea, to say the least.

Offline Watchmaker

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2016, 09:57:43 am »
I believe we actually had this early in the beta, and it was widely despised.  As I recall, in practice it just made it very easy to miss shots, particularly at long range, because you'd moved the camera slightly but the gun itself hadn't caught up.

Offline Kingsania

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2016, 06:02:39 pm »
This is certainly an interesting idea, not usable in its current form but with some refining can become very helpful. The way I see it, there's two possible directions this can work.

1) Follow the Leader

    The current reticle for gun stays linked to the gun but there is a new smaller reticle (a red diamond for example) that is always in the center of your screen and you can look around anywhere you want, the gun's reticle will just follow your reticle as fast as it can. When it reaches the edge of its arc and can't go further, the circle can just change colors to indicate that (let's say red) making it clear that you reached your arc. Also making it easier for gunners to know if they'll have to use stamina to extend further. There's some flaws with this method. As Watchmaker said, it could screw up long range shots as well as throw off your aim when you're firing and turning at the same time. Which is why I would prefer the other option.

2) Gun/View Toggle

    You can turn your gun, or you can look around. There's no interaction between the two. I would make it so holding down space allows you to look around while the gun stays in its current position. I'd say holding down because if you're looky looing around and suddenly get attacked in the front, it'd be quicker to release so you'd get back to firing. (Some people might prefer making it a toggle but hey, this is hypothetical! Why not just make it a setting?) I'd say space because you'd have no reason whatsoever to be jumping when you're on a gun, and it's big, easy to reach, so shiny, just begging to be pressed. Why anyone would use this instead of just getting out of the gun is that your gun stays where you left it and doesn't reset to the center. Nice for the heavier guns that take forever to turn.

So that's my two cents, what do you guys think?

Offline OverlordEgg

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2016, 10:28:11 pm »
I think the ability to turn the camera independently from the gun would be an excellent idea. I don't know about having the camera follow the mouse while the gun lags behind, but what if you hold a button and you can look around without turning the gun, release it and you go back to aiming as usual, thus letting you see a bigger picture around you and see things not necessarily in your gun's arc without hindering your shooting ability when it's time to fire. After all, you're sitting in a chair on a gun. It's not like your head is suddenly locked in place cause you sat down (though I wouldn't give a full 360 degrees of vision. We're not owls  ;) ). There are already other games with this kind of mechanic implemented. World of Tanks, Warthunder, and World of Warships all come to mind, though I'm sure there are way more.

EDIT: It appears I should have read properly, as Kingsania already suggested this :P

Offline VidyaBro

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2016, 11:50:29 pm »
I knew I was missing something when making my first post; being able to turn on/off the 'auto follow' for guns would indeed be important. Being able to just hold space or something to look around freely without changing your aim as Kingsania suggested seems very practical for this.

Schwalbe's concern about being able to free-look outside of a gun's maximum range would likely be made a non-issue by having the gun's reticle just go as far as it can in the direction the camera is facing while perhaps showing an arrow pointing to the direction of the reticle when it goes off-screen.

Offline GurasOguras

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2016, 01:16:14 am »
We call it not staying on the gun 24/7 and getting off during reload - something that pisses everyone when noobs don't see target right ahead of them and keep tracking other ship in the far distance.

Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2016, 01:44:55 am »
We call it not staying on the gun 24/7 and getting off during reload - something that pisses everyone when noobs don't see target right ahead of them and keep tracking other ship in the far distance.

*blasts the salute button*

Offline VidyaBro

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2016, 01:51:07 am »
We call it not staying on the gun 24/7 and getting off during reload - something that pisses everyone when noobs don't see target right ahead of them and keep tracking other ship in the far distance.

You realize changing to this sort of system would alleviate those kinds of problems, right?

Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2016, 02:56:45 am »
While creating many others.

Offline GurasOguras

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2016, 03:36:52 am »
You realize changing to this sort of system would alleviate those kinds of problems, right?

Ye but this idea is completely unnecessary. If you wanna look around just get off the damn gun. It won't fix noob aiming because they have tunnel vision anyway. It won't add anything valuable to the game and only piss off those who don't like it.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 03:39:10 am by GurasOguras »

Offline VidyaBro

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2016, 03:59:35 am »
While creating many others.

What other problems are you talking about?

Ye but this idea is completely unnecessary. If you wanna look around just get off the damn gun. It won't fix noob aiming because they have tunnel vision anyway. It won't add anything valuable to the game and only piss off those who don't like it.

The problem with getting off a gun to look around is that it resets the gun's aimed direction to neutral, which can be especially aggravating for guns with slow turn speeds. Numerous benefits for this type of aiming system have already been brought up, and there could always be a menu option or something to use 'vanilla' gun aiming.

Offline Kamoba

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2016, 04:05:11 am »
While creating many others.

What other problems are you talking about?

Ye but this idea is completely unnecessary. If you wanna look around just get off the damn gun. It won't fix noob aiming because they have tunnel vision anyway. It won't add anything valuable to the game and only piss off those who don't like it.

The problem with getting off a gun to look around is that it resets the gun's aimed direction to neutral, which can be especially aggravating for guns with slow turn speeds. Numerous benefits for this type of aiming system have already been brought up, and there could always be a menu option or something to use 'vanilla' gun aiming.

It would break and make Lochnagar overpowered in some cases, and Scwhalbe is right, the idea as suggested could create many problems...

However the theory behind the idea is different to other ideas that have been put forward, with some tweaking and adjustments it could be good..

Don't take it too personally when others pick holes in the ideas BTW, they don't mean it personally, they're just voicing their concerns...

Anyhow to sum up, I forwarded this to Muse with a note that the theory of the idea is good, Kayvias had a look and they will natter about it in office to see if there is a way to look at Gunning gameplay.

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2016, 03:32:41 pm »
Re: staying mounted on a gun while not shooting, to look for enemy ships. As gurasoguras said, that is not what a good player does. A good player stay off the gun and looks around with a spyglass, so they can get spots before starting to shoot. Spots are super important, more than opening fire a second or two earlier. If the enemy is already marked, you should be off the gun ready to repair it if it gets damaged.

Free look would be a purely quality of life change, for making turning the artemis possible without lifting and resetting your mouse. It would make a slightly annoying edge case more convenient. My proposed fix to turning slow weapons is simply WASD. Using the movement keys in addition to mouse to rotate a gun, useful for crude adjustments to counteract your pilot's maneuvers and maintain arc. For example to keep shooting the front artemis when a junker switches sides.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 03:38:03 pm by Omniraptor »

Offline Kingsania

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Re: Free-look when aiming guns
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2016, 04:13:33 pm »
Free look would be a purely quality of life change, for making turning the artemis possible without lifting and resetting your mouse. It would make a slightly annoying edge case more convenient. My proposed fix to turning slow weapons is simply WASD. Using the movement keys in addition to mouse to rotate a gun, useful for crude adjustments to counteract your pilot's maneuvers and maintain arc. For example to keep shooting the front artemis when a junker switches sides.

I can't really wrap my head around using WASD and mouse to aim the same thing, are you saying that the WASD would be moving via 'clicks' for lack of a better word while mouse aims inside the click?