Author Topic: Sunday testing release notes.  (Read 10913 times)

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2016, 05:16:26 pm »
Making the hwacha fire its entire clip at once does not fix hwacha use; it breaks the hwacha further. The hwacha is nice because it's very user-friendly. Now it isn't, yet it's still overpowered. Because of this "auto-fire" change, you cannot trust new players with it because they cannot test their fire. Hell, if the ship is turning at all, this screws lots of people out of how to aim the gun, myself (and nearly everybody else I've seen shoot the gun) included.

The problem with the hwacha is its incredible power at midrange. It should REQUIRE heavy clip to hit anything past mid-short range. Burst should be used at close range. How does Muse not understand this? Just increase the spread and it's fixed!

I don't know why the Squid needed buffs, but these changes are in the wrong direction as well. Raise the skill ceiling; don't make the Squid easy-mode. The Squid should be incredibly nimble and made of paper. It should run circles (literally) around the enemy, but one mistake should have severe repercussions. And As I said previously, if you're going to change a gun arc, change the front gun to angle to the right. Don't ruin the side-rear gun bifecta ability.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2016, 05:31:11 pm »
Just one thing noone's pointed out here. 5 degree outward rebalance on the mobula actually helps the Hades art mobula as the artemis arcs can compensate for the nerf the most, whilst killing pilots who take unorthodox builds including guns with more limited arcs. More hades art, less other mobs. #Eric


If anything, I'd rather see them adjusted 5 degrees inwards. It allows for more gun overlap possibilities aside from hades art and makes it easiser for flanking ships to stay out of their arcs via circling.

Offline Letus

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2016, 06:50:16 pm »


Most people with any experience do not use the whole clip in one volley. This is why it's a very low-skill weapon to use effectively. The only difference is between a novice, and a vet, rather than between a vet, and a vet with more skill/experience. This adds a skill aspect to the Hwatcha, and makes it harder to use effectively. A newbie *can* use it well, but using it to full potential will require prediction, accuracy, and reflex, and timing now.

Yeah..and hope that your ship doesn't move.

But even then, to factor in all those, a reduction in clipsize, or an increase in scatter would also require some finess..mostly with how to shoot and when and with what even.

Most new Hwatcha ships get in and stay close, so that isn't going to change with the one shot = missiles away or a reduction in clip or spread...
in fact, the one click = missiles away will most likely increase the numbers of ships being in your face as that's going to be the only way to make the gun effective.

I'm not a fan of the Hwatcha, but if you're going to do a missiles away...then that reload time better be reduced.

Oh and ....let's face it...Hwatcha is probably the best gun to fight a Squid with...have fun pairing new Hwatcha against New Squid...better hope you land all those shots onto those engines without missing!

Offline DrTentacles

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2016, 06:56:38 pm »
I am against the Squid buff. It is utterly unnecessary.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2016, 06:57:59 pm »
You have that backwards. A dump clip weapon has less skill than one you can selectively shoot. Fewer skills to learn and perfect. Fewer reasons to learn timing. You turn it into a one-trick pony that you shoot and hope it works.

We tested this in devapp a long time ago with Injection Clip. It was stupid. You fire and pray and jump to the other gun.

As for the Squid, I love the changes. In fact, it is now so nub friendly that I figured we should give the same treatment to the other really hard ship. I made a compilation of ideas in the image  below.


















Offline Dementio

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2016, 07:23:52 pm »
Has anybody in blind testing even noticed the Hwacha change?

Offline GeoRmr

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2016, 07:28:26 pm »
Has anybody in blind testing even noticed the Hwacha change?

I did, but the situation for me to hold my clip only happened once and when it didn't happen I thought it was caused by lag.

Offline Mysterious Medic

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2016, 07:33:06 pm »
The one thing that hasn't been mentioned is the flawed idea of increasing the pyramidion hull and not changing acceleration. Before this patch it seemed we were all in consensus that the pyramidion should be relegated to a ship that does well in a planned ambush and fails when you just throw yourself at the enemy. Adding the hull value only prolongs the death of the ship and gives pilots false confidence. It seems that we've taken a step back and obviously muse is not on the same page.

Muse needs to decide whether they want the pyramidion to be a new player friendly ship or a hard ship that can only succeed well with good understanding of positionin and skill. Although the layout of the ship promotes well and easily defined roles, it's complete and utter lack of acceleration and maneuverability make it frustrating and not fun to fly to say the least. If muse is aiming at making squid an "easy and more accessible" ship, they need to make pyramidion a harder ship that can be extremely effective in capable hands. However, due to the squid's engineering layout lending itself towards chaos and confusion for most new players, I must disagree with this "squidimidion" idea.

On the whole, I do not understand these patch ideas. If you just nerfed caronades, why are you buffing gravity and fall time? If you understand that gat mortar combo+ maneuverable ship is a balancing nightmare, why are you doing it again? Why is the spire being nerfed???

The only sensible ideas in this change list is the flak buff and maybe the harpoon buff, although I see that gun as a lost cause besides backgalleonharpoonOP™. But honesty on the other hand, I'm kinda just interested in a change at this point. So part of me, although I dislike these changes, just wants to see a different era of GOIO meta. Normally this could be done with just adding a new gun,ship, tool etc (that is actually effective-  :( Minotaur), but since muse are too busy with alliance that won't happen anytime soon.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2016, 08:52:35 pm »
I did test it, and it is not dump clip yet.

As for the meta change, Medic, I have proposed several things (emailed) that should help if ever done. The major thing is a third Terminal falloff damage on each gun, completely changing the long/short range dynamic (full thread is in feedback). A less major thing is switching the effects of buff and stamina for gunner. As for ship balance, I have not given too much thought to it yet, other than a few changes that would also require more features (such as ram point multipliers).

Offline Dementio

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2016, 09:08:00 pm »
I completely agree with Medic there. Although, to be fair I was not alone when I felt as if the Pyramidion got an acceleration buff in practise mode. Maybe it was only, because there was no actual ship combat against, so the Pyramidion felt comparably faster than nothing at all.

I wouldn't mind the gravity change, if only it wouldn't kill the Galleon. For everybody that didn't check it yet, the new Meta crew loadouts for Galleons are as follows:
Pilot: Drouge Chute, Drouge Chute, Phoenix Claw and a crew member with Drouge Chute
Two engineers on the top deck spamming Spanner at the balloon
A third engineer on the bottom deck repairing the engines.
Who shoots the guns? Nobody! It doesn't matter, lose the balloon once on a Galleon and you are out for the next few minutes, you can respawn faster into a better position than going back up. Maybe you can hope to shoot some Lumberjacks as well, because that is going to be the literal only gun that will have arc.

But that Galleon thing may just be overreaction, although a nerf, no matter how inderict, is the last thing the Galleon needs.

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2016, 09:36:37 pm »
Dementio, did you go to the Byron School for Ace Piloting Galleons & You Can 2?!

But no seriously, you are correct. The galleon is as strong as its guns. A squid buff and a gravity change is the end of the galleon. It really is. That's coming from me. I've stubbornly held onto the galleon all this time, despite it being against me. This is the nail.

I'm not even angry though. I knew it was coming, I prepared for it. I probably won't be playing much anyway (favourite ship galleon and spire); I'm not interested in Guns of Squids. Do I drop the online? I can never tell.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 09:40:20 pm by Byron Cavendish »

Offline Dementio

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2016, 09:41:06 pm »
I cannot speak for Dementio, but I do that every Wednesday evening.

Offline Letus

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2016, 09:52:24 pm »


But no seriously, you are correct. The galleon is as strong as its guns. A squid buff and a gravity change is the end of the galleon. It really is. That's coming from me. I've stubbornly held onto the galleon all this time, despite it being against me. This is the nail.



A good Squid can disable a galleon without a sweat already.  Imagine it when Squids don't have to jostle around to do that as much.

In fact, the only Galleon I have a hard time to Squid against IS a Hwatcha Racecar Galleon..
Camping their balloon is the only way to not get disabled, but you got to keep their ally in idea...learning to bail from the Galleon to nail their Ally, only to know that the Galleon Balloon is going up and gonna wreck your squid's engines...and the fact they only know how to go Forward makes positioning a bit annoying...

But with the Squid Buffs, that'll be history! :D

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2016, 10:00:56 pm »
Absolutely, hence my point. How many vets do you see piloting galleons anymore? You're shooting yourself in the foot CURRENTLY just doing it. That's why this patch is the nail in the coffin. A good galleon could maybe defend against the blending if they got their hwacha off in time. A good galleon could anticipate it by hydrogening up, and then droguing down as you got that balloon up.

I'm not complaining about the gravity thing, it's a good idea. But the limitations of heavy gun arcs , small carronades and artemis up, give the galleon no balloon defense. If this goes in, either heavy gun, artemis, or small carronade arcs need to be looked at, and the squid needs to be nerfed (not buffed), just to give the galleon a small window of a chance. Otherwise, they don't even need to kill you anymore. You'll be left on the ground; the other team will just 2v1 your team mate...that's how I would do it, if I want to win. Muse, even if you're at the flight ceiling, how much fun do you think it is for a galleon's crew to be hard countered immediately, without anything you can do? The moment that balloon is popped, all your crew can do is wave and smile at the squid/goldfish.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 10:07:12 pm by Byron Cavendish »

Offline Mysterious Medic

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Re: Sunday testing release notes.
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2016, 10:29:49 pm »
Ehh, I don't really think the galleon is too weak right now tbh. The heavy use of mobulas in the meta means that the galleon's reliable output of hades and lumberjack damage does really well against mobula at midrange. You can see this by watching the Cronus League today, with Team Predators taking a galleon a number of times against mobulas  with great results. The galleons main benefit is dat lumberjack. Lumberjack counters the idea of blending down the galleon because as long as its ally is nearby and the galleon is turned in the right direction, lj has ridiculous upwards arcs and can aid their ally and turn the tide, thereby saving themselves. Unlike on the goldfish or spire, where when you are blending down you can easily rammed or killed, galleon can tank for a while and still help its ally with lumberjack. I haven't actually tested what the gravity means in terms of survivability for the Galleon, but if being on the ground gets you killed very fast and the galleon can't tank, that's a massive nerf. Apparently I read that at height ceiling of dunes you fall nearly to the ground in one rebuild time? That is way too much.

But honestly, I don't understand the need for gravity anyway. What is it trying to balance? Is it trying to balance mobula by making it fall faster? That doesn't make sense because Mobula is extremely light, and why would you use a game wide balance for one ship? It's just like they looked at what mechanic they had for gravity and thought, "why the hell not". If this gravity patch does go through I will expect to see caronades everywhere again, and just like that we're back to people complaining about the blending meta.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 10:31:54 pm by Mysterious Medic »