Author Topic: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread  (Read 91303 times)

Offline GeoRmr

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Okay so it's been two years now and this tool is still more useless than the harpoon - I believe it's time we all try really hard and think of another passive tool related to ship spotting for muse to implement as the rangefinder.



My Suggestion:


  • The spinning circles used to show someone on a gun how to aim are removed from the rangefinder, or at least an option is added for a player to disable them. There is nothing more annoying than shooting a gun when a novice on your ship starts rangefinding and the spinning circles start to block up your reticle.


  • The rangefinder effect only works if the ship is first spotted by another player with a spyglass,[1] and the range finder effect remains active until that ship loses its spot through hard or soft cover.


  • The range finder is given the following limited spotting ability if used on an unspotted ship - ships are marked for a limited number of seconds visible only to players on the same ship (essentially the exact same functionality as the captains mark ability, but with its own distinct set of brackets around the targeted ship)


  • Once a ship is successfully marked by a rangefinder after already being spotted by a spyglass it displays the range of the ship in km from each ship on the spotting team as it does currently. This effect will remain active until the ship loses its spot through hard or soft cover and does not require constant spotting from the person using the rangefinder.


  • Once a ship is marked by the rangefinder after being spotted by a spyglass a variation of the ship status UI currently in spectator mode is displayed next to the spotted ship[2] showing: it's hull health, component cool-downs, which components are disabled, which components are on fire, the number of fire stacks on burning components, which components are chem-sprayed, and which components are buffed.[3]



  • Or by a pilot with both a rangefinder and a spyglass (lol)
  • Or perhaps fixed on screen exactly as it would in spectator mode if this proves to appear less cluttered
  • It may be preferable to make some of this information available only to the player using the rangefinder, or require "active rangefinding" (holding left click with the rangefinder over a spotted ship) to display this information to other players depending on how powerful an impact you feel this knowledge may have on the game
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 11:50:00 pm by GeoRmr »

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2016, 01:03:34 am »
I would like to see the range of the ship if it's spotted with the rangefinder. I like the suggestions that you have posted here. The spinning circle has always bugged me and everybody I have played with. The last suggestion about showing the status of the ships is not needed. Let the team see the range of the ship when spotted and remove the spinning circle. There could also be a time limit on the range spot. Requiring the user to re-spot the ship after 25 secs or so.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 01:07:44 am by Spud Nick »

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2016, 06:05:40 am »
  • The spinning circles used to show someone on a gun how to aim are removed from the rangefinder, or at least an option is added for a player to disable them. There is nothing more annoying than shooting a gun when a novice on your ship starts rangefinding and the spinning circles start to block up your reticle.


I've honestly never understood exactly how these circles work anyway. I assume the smaller the circle, the more accurate? But that's never explained in the game... so yeah, either clarify it in-game or get rid of it.

Quote
  • The rangefinder effect only works if the ship is first spotted by another player with a spyglass, and the range finder effect remains active until that ship loses its spot through hard or soft cover.


This. This this this. This makes it worthwhile. I'd gladly have 2 spyglasses and 1 rangefinder on my ship if it worked like this.

Quote
  • The range finder is given the following limited spotting ability if used on an unspotted ship - ships are marked for a limited number of seconds visible only to players on the same ship (essentially the exact same functionality as the captains mark ability, but with its own distinct set of brackets around the targeted ship)


No. Because then you'll likely have more than 1 rangefinder per ship, and we don't want that. Give the rangefinder and the spyglasses to the crew mates you trust to use them responsibly. Don't dumb it down. Rangefinder should be a bonus for crews who are smart enough to use it.

Quote
  • Once a ship is successfully marked by a rangefinder after already being spotted by a spyglass it displays the range of the ship in km from each ship on the spotting team as it does currently. This effect will remain active until the ship loses its spot through hard or soft cover and does not require constant spotting from the person using the rangefinder.


This would essentially make 1 rangefinder "spot" for the entire team. I don't like that. Imagine a 3 vs. 3 or a 4 vs. 4... one rangefinder can give all those players this info? "Overpowered." I like the one-per-ship idea.

Quote
  • Once a ship is marked by the rangefinder after being spotted by a spyglass a variation of the ship status UI currently in spectator mode is displayed next to the spotted ship showing: it's hull health, component cool-downs, which components are disabled, which components are on fire, the number of fire stacks on burning components, which components are chem-sprayed, and which components are buffed.

Too much information. Unfair, in a way. Maybe just info on certain aspects.

My suggestion: I think the best quality the rangefinder could give players is this: once a rangefinder is "used" on an already-spotted enemy ship, any crew mate on the rangefinding ship who is mounting a gun receives some sort of notification when an enemy comes within their mounted gun's maximum range. It alerts the shooters when firing their guns will allow the bullets to reach the enemy vessel. No more firing gatlings or carronades early... rangefinder will tell you when to open fire! 8)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 06:14:33 am by Atruejedi »

Offline GeoRmr

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2016, 06:14:56 am »
I would like to see the range of the ship if it's spotted with the rangefinder. I like the suggestions that you have posted here. The spinning circle has always bugged me and everybody I have played with. The last suggestion about showing the status of the ships is not needed. Let the team see the range of the ship when spotted and remove the spinning circle. There could also be a time limit on the range spot. Requiring the user to re-spot the ship after 25 secs or so.

the only problem with this is - we already have a map which gives us detailed enough information about how to aim (e.g. lj long range) accurate numbers are no more effective than  looking at the map and rounding in 500 meters. Having range as the only feature does pretty much nothing and using range finder would only waste extra crews repair time to spot twice for 0 gain. Knowing the range of a ship I don't feel is powerful enough to require a crew member to spot it multiple times if the ship doesn't get in cover.

Offline GeoRmr

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2016, 06:17:20 am »
Quote
This would essentially make 1 rangefinder "spot" for the entire team. I don't like that. Imagine a 3 vs. 3 or a 4 vs. 4... one rangefinder can give all those players this info? "Overpowered." I like the one-per-ship idea.

Did you read my footnote - what do you think?


My suggestion: I think the best quality the rangefinder could give players is this: once a rangefinder is "used" on an already-spotted enemy ship, any crew mate on the rangefinding ship who is mounting a gun receives some sort of notification when an enemy comes within their mounted gun's maximum range. It alerts the shooters when firing their guns will allow the bullets to reach the enemy vessel. No more firing gatlings or carronades early... rangefinder will tell you when to open fire! 8)


I like this idea, but it's already in the game (get ready for incoming secret about a stupid feature) - if you enable tutorial text the relevant components on enemy ships are hi-lighted and blink as soon as you get in range. Also I think that the range finder does this currently anyway with a x on the reticle.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 06:42:27 am by GeoRmr »

Offline GeoRmr

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2016, 06:41:01 am »
Quote
No. Because then you'll likely have more than 1 rangefinder per ship, and we don't want that. Give the rangefinder and the spyglasses to the crew mates you trust to use them responsibly. Don't dumb it down. Rangefinder should be a bonus for crews who are smart enough to use it.


I really don't see why this would make people take more than 1 rangefinder per ship. Also I don't see why that would be a bad thing if they did - what if the gunner was the only person with a spyglass and both engineers had range finders - the gunner is the person with the most free time to spot ships I think it would be pretty cool if people played like this.

Captains get this ability for free anyway, in the latest patch captain mark even shows where the ship is off screen with a floating arrow indicator! (OP OP) All it would do is let you point out the location of the ship to your own crew (teamwork required) for them to spot it which shows its location to the rest of the team (teamwork result). Note the ship will not appear on the map if you mark an unspotted ship with rangefinder, the ship will only be rangefinder marked for a few seconds, and it will not appear to the ally ship at all.

I don't think this would "dumb it down" (what great powerful advanced effect do you think the range finder brings, even with my suggested changes?) but only make it appealing to the crews that want to use it. I know for a fact my team would ignore the rangefinder if it left a crew member without the ability to mark a ship to other players on the team, no matter what information it showed about enemy ships. (this is the biggest reason it's bad to take a rangefinder currently!) Are we too dumb to use the range finder, or smart enough to realize it's crap if it takes away a crew members ability to spot at all?
Spotting position is just too important and not having it at all on one player is very bad - one player spotting a ship can have a serious effect on the outcome of the battle, just think how many times that one player on your team spotted that metamidion right behind you and saved your ass. (I can think of a veteran player who thinks spotting is so important that he would always take spyglass as pilot before they added the captain mark ability)

« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 06:48:48 am by GeoRmr »

Offline Kamoba

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2016, 07:13:31 am »
*Thinks really hard, gets a headache, cries, bumps head, gets idea.*
Give range finder spyglass abilities so they would be the same tool for all intents and purposes just with a different mesh and skin.

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2016, 08:12:07 am »
Give range finder a type of captains mark. Once marked then range info is available if ship is spotted by spyglass.

Make range information available to the ship with rangefunder until spot from any spyglass is lost. This requires each ship to have their own rangefinder

This would make it viable. Only problem is now there are three types of bracket systems used to denote a marked ship

All good ideas. I think these are the best that you presented.

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2016, 08:13:42 am »
Quote
This would essentially make 1 rangefinder "spot" for the entire team. I don't like that. Imagine a 3 vs. 3 or a 4 vs. 4... one rangefinder can give all those players this info? "Overpowered." I like the one-per-ship idea.
Did you read my footnote - what do you think?

Still against those footnotes as well. Too much info :-\

Quote
I like this idea, but it's already in the game (get ready for incoming secret about a stupid feature) - if you enable tutorial text the relevant components on enemy ships are hi-lighted and blink as soon as you get in range. Also I think that the range finder does this currently anyway with a x on the reticle.

What!?! h4x!!~!~!!1`11 Muse needs to FIX THIS!

Quote
I really don't see why this would make people take more than 1 rangefinder per ship. Also I don't see why that would be a bad thing if they did - what if the gunner was the only person with a spyglass and both engineers had range finders - the gunner is the person with the most free time to spot ships I think it would be pretty cool if people played like this.

Captains get this ability for free anyway, in the latest patch captain mark even shows where the ship is off screen with a floating arrow indicator! (OP OP)

This IS OP... it negates the point of the crew using the spyglass at all (beyond for map marking for allies; screw 'em, right?). A captain should have to depend on his crew to spot, for better or worse.

Quote
All it would do is let you point out the location of the ship to your own crew (teamwork required) for them to spot it which shows its location to the rest of the team (teamwork result). Note the ship will not appear on the map if you mark an unspotted ship with rangefinder, the ship will only be rangefinder marked for a few seconds, and it will not appear to the ally ship at all.

I don't think this would "dumb it down" (what great powerful advanced effect do you think the range finder brings, even with my suggested changes?) but only make it appealing to the crews that want to use it. I know for a fact my team would ignore the rangefinder if it left a crew member without the ability to mark a ship to other players on the team, no matter what information it showed about enemy ships. (this is the biggest reason it's bad to take a rangefinder currently!) Are we too dumb to use the range finder, or smart enough to realize it's crap if it takes away a crew members ability to spot at all?
Spotting position is just too important and not having it at all on one player is very bad - one player spotting a ship can have a serious effect on the outcome of the battle, just think how many times that one player on your team spotted that metamidion right behind you and saved your ass. (I can think of a veteran player who thinks spotting is so important that he would always take spyglass as pilot before they added the captain mark ability)

I thought about it and I changed my mind. You're right. I'd be okay with the rangefinder providing a temporary spot of, say, 5 or so seconds, to allow the person who is actually carrying the spyglass to apply a proper spot.

Give range finder a type of captains mark. Once marked then range info is available if ship is spotted by spyglass.

Make range information available to the ship with rangefunder until spot from any spyglass is lost. This requires each ship to have their own rangefinder

This would make it viable. Only problem is now there are three types of bracket systems used to denote a marked ship

All good ideas. I think these are the best that you presented.

I'm in complete agreement with all this. Make the "rangefinder spot" a classic crosshair, like the heavy ammunition icon, and make it disappear once properly spotted by a spyglass user.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 08:17:22 am by Atruejedi »

Offline Spud Nick

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Offline HamsterIV

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2016, 12:12:22 pm »
It should be able to find the range of any solid object in the game world and show a marker of where that object is through the deck plating. That way when a pilot is flying through buildings or mine fields the crew can put a spot marker on objects the captain should know about.

Offline Kamoba

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2016, 01:26:23 pm »
It should be able to find the range of any solid object in the game world and show a marker of where that object is through the deck plating. That way when a pilot is flying through buildings or mine fields the crew can put a spot marker on objects the captain should know about.
I approve of this.

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2016, 02:52:44 pm »
That would be irritating. I disagree with the object marking. I understand your point. Me thinks of mobulas in paritan.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2016, 04:29:13 pm »
Spot mark wouldn't be persistent after the tool is deactivated. Think of it more as a laser pointer whose dot you can see through the deck plating than a spyglass for non ship objects.

Offline Giersdorf

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2016, 09:53:13 pm »
I haven't been playing long but never bothered even using it once because it creates negative stigma about it's usefulness. I think that if it's in the game it should have a sought after usability.