Author Topic: vet games:blind pick  (Read 15636 times)

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2016, 03:54:23 am »
would it really be so bad if captains had to build their ships and build their teams based on only each other and the map?

No it would not be bad. That is what Clan Clan does for the SCS.

So do Predators. Generally most decent to good competitive teams practice their builds and focus on ally synergy before they really get to countering the enemy because whats the point of countering the enemy if they know how to deal with that counter better than you know how to counter?

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2016, 04:11:43 am »
SPQR was the only team that relied heavily on the counter game. The teams that are active now focus on the meta or bring ships that they like to fly. Mobula, Goldfish and the Squid are the most popular ships in the SCS right now.

Offline Captain Scrobeard

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2016, 07:58:23 am »
I like the idea and I would definetly give it a try ...

However I could imagine that implementing this option could decrease the variety and number of unconventional loadouts because players will more likely play 'save' and well-rehearsed loadouts.
But if it will become a thing, it should definitly be an option for the vet games (if they become more popular) and propably not for the regular matches ... there are many people around, balancing matches by giving themselves a handycap on purpose (swapping ships included) or giving some valuable advice to unexperienced players even on the enemy teams. Blind picks could make it more harder for the players willing to do the balancing stuff in stacked lobbys etc. by themselves. And this is a fantastic thing about this community which I dont wanna miss ...

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2016, 08:42:22 am »
Vet games would definitely be more appealing to me if they had blind pick of ships.

Offline Kamoba

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2016, 11:30:19 am »
I like the idea and I would definetly give it a try ...

However I could imagine that implementing this option could decrease the variety and number of unconventional loadouts because players will more likely play 'save' and well-rehearsed loadouts.
But if it will become a thing, it should definitly be an option for the vet games (if they become more popular) and propably not for the regular matches ... there are many people around, balancing matches by giving themselves a handycap on purpose (swapping ships included) or giving some valuable advice to unexperienced players even on the enemy teams. Blind picks could make it more harder for the players willing to do the balancing stuff in stacked lobbys etc. by themselves. And this is a fantastic thing about this community which I dont wanna miss ...

I actually disagree and think it would increase ship variety. I know many people who want to take their favourite ships but each time they try they get hard countered and are forced to deal with it and fight harder or change ship to avoid being easily crushed

Offline Captain Scrobeard

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2016, 12:52:05 pm »
I like the idea and I would definetly give it a try ...

However I could imagine that implementing this option could decrease the variety and number of unconventional loadouts because players will more likely play 'save' and well-rehearsed loadouts.
But if it will become a thing, it should definitly be an option for the vet games (if they become more popular) and propably not for the regular matches ... there are many people around, balancing matches by giving themselves a handycap on purpose (swapping ships included) or giving some valuable advice to unexperienced players even on the enemy teams. Blind picks could make it more harder for the players willing to do the balancing stuff in stacked lobbys etc. by themselves. And this is a fantastic thing about this community which I dont wanna miss ...

I actually disagree and think it would increase ship variety. I know many people who want to take their favourite ships but each time they try they get hard countered and are forced to deal with it and fight harder or change ship to avoid being easily crushed

If the majority thinks like that, you might actually be right. If you don't have to worry that far more than 50% of the ships in this games will be more or less meta-builds, it could be a very entertaining game-mode which could actually improve the experience for the players ... as I said, I'd love to give it a try. And I'd also love to play more unconventional loadouts in those matches. Maybe my fears are baseless.

Offline Helios.

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2016, 11:23:25 am »
my point was that meta builds are there only because they arent easy to counter. you could run a wacky build if you KNEW people wouldnt be dicks and just hardcounter you, and it could work!

Offline Helios.

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2016, 11:24:46 am »
the meta is what it is in a world where the ships are visible. change that: change the meta?

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2016, 11:38:31 am »
The outcome of it depends entirely on the intention. In a competitive enviroment, or in a pub enviroment where a pilot's goal is simply doing well, the meta builds will be taken more in the event the enemy happens to have a good counter on the other team for any other ship you may take. However, in a casual enviroment where everyone agrees to fly unorthodox builds in order to surprise eachother and play the game in an alternate way, you would be right. But that in itself requires all pilots to be in line with this idea otherwise you risk being countered by the silly meta mob without even knowing.

 Personally, back when Vet games were done often enough for me to catch it, I'd use them as an opportunity to cooperate with my ally towards the game's intended objective just like how I would in competitive. I emphasized on this because everyone in those lobbies were always guaranteed to havea semi-clear idea of what they were doing, and thus trying your best would actualy breed hot competition from both teams. Generally it seemed to me that troll attitudes or builds werent respected very much unless the whole lobby agreed to go 4 munkers or something of the sort. From my perspective, the scenario you're aiming for (Read: One where unique builds are brought without fear of being countered, rather than one where meta builds are brought in fear of being blindpick countered) doesn't really mesh with the intended purpose of vet games and I'd much rather see it as an optional feature in normal lobbies. The problems with vet games have already been explained, mainly touching on how limited it is combined with how optional it is. If you intend to fix the vet games, touch on it's design faults. If you intend to bring blindpicks into the game, that's fine, but that should be the main topic, not it's implementation in vet games. Although it wouldnt hurt to have a vet blindpick lobby, I think it'd be for the best if it was tested/added in advanced lobbies first.

Offline Helios.

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2016, 10:14:24 pm »
im honestly flabbergasted that there is so much animosity with blind pick. in an attempt to foster the highest level of play, make the game a more purer form of competition. peeking at the other side and picking ships to make their life hard isnt (unless a dev wants to correct me here) a feature, its a bug.

i see counterpicking in general as a courruption of both the game as its meant to be played and erosive to the community. anyone who is perfectly willing to hardcounter pick someone is not going to be doing the community any favors, and honestly in my view dont deserve to win as easily as they might.

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2016, 11:57:39 pm »
It still comes down to piloting skill at the end of the day. Even if you are hard countered you can still win the match if you have better teamwork than the other team.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2016, 06:48:58 am »
im honestly flabbergasted that there is so much animosity with blind pick. in an attempt to foster the highest level of play, make the game a more purer form of competition. peeking at the other side and picking ships to make their life hard isnt (unless a dev wants to correct me here) a feature, its a bug.

i see counterpicking in general as a courruption of both the game as its meant to be played and erosive to the community. anyone who is perfectly willing to hardcounter pick someone is not going to be doing the community any favors, and honestly in my view dont deserve to win as easily as they might.

Did you read what I posted? Nowhere in it have I ever said I dislike blindpicks, Infact I tried to help you align your envisioned idea better by suggesting that you prioritize advanced lobbies first before you implement blindpicks into vet games aswell.

Offline GeoRmr

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2016, 10:53:27 am »
im honestly flabbergasted that there is so much animosity with blind pick. in an attempt to foster the highest level of play, make the game a more purer form of competition. peeking at the other side and picking ships to make their life hard isnt (unless a dev wants to correct me here) a feature, its a bug.

i see counterpicking in general as a courruption of both the game as its meant to be played and erosive to the community. anyone who is perfectly willing to hardcounter pick someone is not going to be doing the community any favors, and honestly in my view dont deserve to win as easily as they might.

I just don't like the idea of forcing the blind pick, mainly because I don't believe that it does foster the highest level of play. I'd like to paraphrase Sammy B. T. - We're going to take the same ships every time. Let them hard counter us and we'll still take them, and then we'll win anyway. (which they did)

This doesn't mean however that I'm in anyway opposed to having blind pick as an option when creating a lobby, you make a valid point and it could definitely add some variety to the game. Just don't force it on us, plz.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2016, 11:45:03 am »
I agree that it should be an option in custom and vet lobbies

Offline Helios.

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Re: vet games:blind pick
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2016, 10:50:49 pm »
vet lobbies arent mandatory by ANY stretch of the imagination. my idea for making blind pick the standard for vet games was to differentiate them from the normal games. nobody plays vet games because its basically just the same thing as a regular except it takes twice as long to get the game started. i am suggesting that it be implemented this way because i know for a fact that there are at least soem people who really want blind pick, and would wait for vet games. ironically the more people who are willing to wait, the less waiting that they will have to do. 

the more different they are from normal games, the more interest there can be. if people HATE it, then sure make it optional, or get rid of it altogether.

in other games when ranked matches were put in they have a slightly different method to how they are played, with the intention of creating either a higher level of play, adding an extra level of strategy or removing some crutch or training feature that is now unneccicary