Author Topic: WANTED minigame remake suggestion  (Read 7668 times)

Offline BinaryDragon

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WANTED minigame remake suggestion
« on: February 22, 2016, 09:17:39 am »
I don't understand how having a wanted mini game in it's current form can ever be a good idea. When you set up a minigame and declare winner. You have a competition. This will result in some of the people taking part in the competition wishing to win it .This can affect the way they play the game in a negative way

There are 3 ways to win the wanted minigame

the first an most effective way is to add everyone in sight to your friends list, that way you will be able to see mostly every on going game. Next all you have to do is join the lobby and based on the levels of players in the match determine the winning team. Then join it. This is bad for the balance in a game,where the balance was broken before the game even started. The winning team will now be reinforced by a players that knows his way around the game.And therefore make the already broken balance even worse. Should you come in doubt  what team is gonna win ? join spectator for a while and then join the winning team, when the match result have been determined. To me, joining a game in the last second only to claim bounty points and +1 win is cheating. What do you guys think ?

the second most effective way to win is to stomp novices as fast as you can. in order to gain as many wins as possible with the time you have available to you. While this is slightly more acceptable(everyone can pick their battles so to speak) I don't think novices have fun when they get stomped over and over, and so they turn away from the game. That's what I think, what do you think ?

the last way, and the way I guess the mini game should be played . You look for good balanced matches, a nicely balanced match is more enjoyable for everyone, but not effective for getting a lot of wins and that is the name of the game - thats how you win the WANTED mini game. I have only taken part it in one time, and I can honestly say, I dislike it and so here I am to suggest something I think would help new players become a part of the community instead of being scared away, because they get stomped all of the time. It would also reward the type of behavior I expect is desirable for the community

I think the idea with a mini game is great, but the objective in the current mini game is not good. Here is my suggestion :

remake the mini game so instead of encouraging stomping novices as fast as possible ftw. Make it so the only way to get points is by flying with novices

I imagen points could be something similar to this

WANTED player flying with a player with that has below 10 matches (and win) will grant the wanted player 5 points
WANTED player flying with a player with that has below 50 matches (and win) will grant the wanted player 2 points
WANTED player flying with a player with that has below 100 matches(and win) will grant the wanted player 1 points


in this way, people taking part in the wanted competition would have to make novice friends. Since the points are only granted if the ship wins, the vets and others taking part in the mini game will probably be really helpful. And if they are smart, they will make the novice feel welcome, hope he/she stays and wanna play on.Because in this setting the novices will be sought after, and I think more people would continue to play if they hit 100 games

there is however one problem with this system. Some players might make multiple accounts in order to make their buddies win, this would suck. I don't know if there currently are any rules about multiaccouting. A rule could be set that you cant take part in the mini game as a novice if you have played more than 100 games on any account
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 09:36:40 am by BinaryDragon »

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: WANTED minigame remake suggestion
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2016, 11:54:49 am »
Can't help but agree. I participated in the Wanted system one time, the January season, and won the Most Dangerous Bounty award, completely by accident, and only because I played WAAAAY TOO MUCH in the past few months. I seriously lost probably 60% of the matches I played and won (obviously) the other 40%... yet I had the most wins. I would love to see the statistics of the games played by the other participants in the top ten on the leaderboard during that season, including the number of wins and losses they incurred. I presume I played roughly 500 matches and won about 220 of them. Quantity over quality got me the victory.

Or did it? I posit that the matches I flew in were "better" matches, even if I often lost them, because I was flying with a variety of different players, old and new, skilled and crap.

The competition at the top of the board frustrated me because anytime I encountered those players they were always flying with their clan mates and always winning. I'm thinking of one player in particular, who I thought actually won the Most Dangerous Bounty award for the January season instead of me. I was surprised when I got the badge instead. Pleasantly surprised, though :).

It was incredibly hard to collect bounties, so I gave up completely on trying to win that award. My pubnubscrub squads simply were not strong enough. But I am proud of the fact that I won Most Dangerous Bounty simply by winning and losing over and over again with random people. I mean, I played way too many matches to win it, but at least I did it fairly. That being said... never again. It just isn't fun to compete with people who have an inherent edge by flying with clan mates and pub stomping. I'd consider participating again if the system changed to something like what is proposed above. Kudos for trying to shake up the system.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 12:07:23 pm by Atruejedi »

Offline Keyvias

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Re: WANTED minigame remake suggestion
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2016, 12:22:58 pm »
I definitely want to look at updating the system. It's almost 3 years old now and with so many changes to the community and everything we've learned in the past 3 years it just makes sense to take a stab at updating the system to try and make it more conducive to improving the quality of play as well as giving an interesting Meta Game behind it.


Definitely keep posting all yours ideas, reasoning, and issues you've had with the current system here so I can keep them in mind as I investigate changes we can make.

Offline Kamoba

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Re: WANTED minigame remake suggestion
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2016, 12:37:25 pm »
I like the reasons behind the idea and the proposed change certainly seems to make sense to avoid stomping/foul play.
I think alt accounting wouldn't be such a big problem, the people who would do that are in the minority, also they would run out of accounts they could open as they would level up pretty quickly, which would then force this minority to buy new copies of the game, which if they did, great, more money for Muse! ;)

The only problem I forsee is, it feels a little too "punish the high level players who play as friends" in favour of pushing vets to play with Novices, which although a good thing could have its own set of repurcussions...

Maybe bonus points if the win is achieved while on an "underdog" team but not so much so that it punishes those who like to stick together.

I'll ponder if I can think of something different to add..

Offline BinaryDragon

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Re: WANTED minigame remake suggestion
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2016, 01:04:01 pm »
Quote
"punish the high level players who play as friends"

they already have tournaments and vet games to take part in. And you can't force people to take part in a minigame they don't want to play . So I don't think of it as punishment for them. And maybe some of the groups of friends you talk about will take in a novice if they have a slot free. As an active member of the community.I don't have any problems with novices flying on my ship. I like it and try to make it enjoyable for them. I got the idea from thinking about what kind of competition would breed the kind of behavior i assume is wanted in the goio community, combined with assuming you would like the player base to grow...just a little bit ? (I know servers are not free, more people means bigger server bill) and then there is suddenly another reason for people to ask their buddy who never played to join and play

"please come play with me i get extra points if we win"


but i wanna stress out here, that i do believe people are novices till they have played 100 games, at least
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 01:06:20 pm by BinaryDragon »

Offline Kamoba

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Re: WANTED minigame remake suggestion
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2016, 02:27:17 pm »
Quote
"punish the high level players who play as friends"

they already have tournaments and vet games to take part in. And you can't force people to take part in a minigame they don't want to play . So I don't think of it as punishment for them. And maybe some of the groups of friends you talk about will take in a novice if they have a slot free. As an active member of the community.I don't have any problems with novices flying on my ship. I like it and try to make it enjoyable for them. I got the idea from thinking about what kind of competition would breed the kind of behavior i assume is wanted in the goio community, combined with assuming you would like the player base to grow...just a little bit ? (I know servers are not free, more people means bigger server bill) and then there is suddenly another reason for people to ask their buddy who never played to join and play

"please come play with me i get extra points if we win"


but i wanna stress out here, that i do believe people are novices till they have played 100 games, at least


Most of the groups of friends I mentioned do accept anyone onto their ship, I'm not intending to bash your idea or anything, just ensure its viewed from a few different angles, because although people are not forced to take part, why should they be penalised for wanting to take part with their friends if they do take part? After all it does come with rewards which people may want to get.. And not everyone enjoys flying the competitive tournaments either..
Just dropping a point of view on the table not trying to be nagative..

Offline WATERitsME

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Re: WANTED minigame remake suggestion
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 03:01:06 pm »
I gotta agree with binary, it would probably benefit the game if there was a competitive reward system for teaching and keeping novices around besides the already existing novice player achievements...

maybe one does not have to replace wanted, but possibly add another monthly challenge that rewards vets for carrying a novice in a match, that being said, there should be a slight multiplier for more novices than one, and possibly a restriction for only vet players to be ranked. This would ensure that vets between each other would be more encouraged to take care of novices, compared to queuing with 2 or 3 of their vet friends, and being satisfied with a novice that sits on a pyra banshee/balloon position, leaving the gunner to jump down to repair the hull, because it is just not worth the effort in teaching or reminding the novice to keep an eye out...

The community of GOIO is great, but it would probably be good for vets to feel more responsible for teaching and helping novices. this would ensure that the few people who decide to pick up the game, are more likely to stay engaged compared to playing a few matches, not understanding what they have been doing wrong, blaming the allied captain, or their crew mates, and then rage quitting after a few matches, to not return again :S (not that that has happened  to any crewmembers on my ship, but i can imagine it does happen commonly with more harsh captains' crews)

Offline Kingsania

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Re: WANTED minigame remake suggestion
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2016, 06:06:56 pm »

I imagen points could be something similar to this

WANTED player flying with a player with that has below 10 matches (and win) will grant the wanted player 5 points
WANTED player flying with a player with that has below 50 matches (and win) will grant the wanted player 2 points
WANTED player flying with a player with that has below 100 matches(and win) will grant the wanted player 1 points

there is however one problem with this system. Some players might make multiple accounts in order to make their buddies win, this would suck. I don't know if there currently are any rules about multiaccouting. A rule could be set that you cant take part in the mini game as a novice if you have played more than 100 games on any account


This is certainly an interesting proposal, and you did mention the main problem that'd come with it. Honestly, while GoIO is geared towards being friendly, I see WANTED aimed towards more skilled people who wants to compete against others of their level without needing a dedicated crew/clan. Not to say that it's impossible to motivate WANTED players to be friendly to newbies but it's a bit besides the point.

An alternative solution I'd like to suggest is reward WANTED players for winning while handicapped. Had an AI crew member? Add another point to that win! Flown against all enemy captains your level or above? Add some more points! Won an underdog match? Have even more points! They'd get the challenge they want, without being motivated to stomp on the lower levels.

maybe one does not have to replace wanted, but possibly add another monthly challenge that rewards vets for carrying a novice in a match, that being said, there should be a slight multiplier for more novices than one, and possibly a restriction for only vet players to be ranked. This would ensure that vets between each other would be more encouraged to take care of novices, compared to queuing with 2 or 3 of their vet friends, and being satisfied with a novice that sits on a pyra banshee/balloon position, leaving the gunner to jump down to repair the hull, because it is just not worth the effort in teaching or reminding the novice to keep an eye out...

Perhaps veterans would get more points for each day they play with said novices? That'd certainly motivate vets to stick around the same players.

Offline OverlordEgg

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Re: WANTED minigame remake suggestion
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2016, 09:04:54 pm »
Rather than a flat number of wins system, could maybe make different players worth a different amount of points based on their mmr or their level. That way, a wanted player trying to win by stomping noobs would have to stomp way way more noobs, while someone playing against threatening opponents could catch up and pass them in no time. Basically inspired by chess mmr. You CAN play against people lower rank than you, but even if you win you'll hardly get anything for it. Whereas if you take on someone bigger than you, you get a ton of points.

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: WANTED minigame remake suggestion
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2016, 10:27:48 pm »
...win by stomping noobs would have to stomp way way more noobs...

I agreed until here.

Offline OverlordEgg

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Re: WANTED minigame remake suggestion
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2016, 12:16:11 am »
...win by stomping noobs would have to stomp way way more noobs...

I agreed until here.

Well alright I could've probably phrased that better. Didn't mean to imply that people go fight noobs a lot. Meant to imply it should discourage it by making it much less worth their time, and encourage people try and take on challenging fights rather than instantly quit by making those victory that much sweeter.

Offline Kingsania

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Re: WANTED minigame remake suggestion
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2016, 11:29:49 am »
Rather than a flat number of wins system, could maybe make different players worth a different amount of points based on their mmr or their level. That way, a wanted player trying to win by stomping noobs would have to stomp way way more noobs, while someone playing against threatening opponents could catch up and pass them in no time. Basically inspired by chess mmr. You CAN play against people lower rank than you, but even if you win you'll hardly get anything for it. Whereas if you take on someone bigger than you, you get a ton of points.

I like this idea a lot. However, I am completely against having the points gained/lost based on player level. The reason being that this would make 45-45-45 players having to grind away just to go up a rank whereas a 1-1-1 can shoot straight to the top when carried by a good team.

Offline OverlordEgg

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Re: WANTED minigame remake suggestion
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2016, 12:05:57 pm »
Rather than a flat number of wins system, could maybe make different players worth a different amount of points based on their mmr or their level. That way, a wanted player trying to win by stomping noobs would have to stomp way way more noobs, while someone playing against threatening opponents could catch up and pass them in no time. Basically inspired by chess mmr. You CAN play against people lower rank than you, but even if you win you'll hardly get anything for it. Whereas if you take on someone bigger than you, you get a ton of points.

I like this idea a lot. However, I am completely against having the points gained/lost based on player level. The reason being that this would make 45-45-45 players having to grind away just to go up a rank whereas a 1-1-1 can shoot straight to the top when carried by a good team.

Yeah, I agree, which is why I also suggested possibly using mmr. Or if there's something else that could be used, I'm open to ideas in that regard.