Author Topic: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks  (Read 3272 times)

Offline FoxyBillClinton

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How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« on: January 21, 2016, 11:57:11 am »
I recently posted this to /r/GunsOfIcarusOnline, and I thought it would also be a good idea to post it here.

Way back when I first started GoI, I heard a rumor that Heatsink rounds where better for the gats than greased. I continued to use greased however, because that is what everyone else used. But I never forgot that first rumor. So today, I did the math.

I'll start off with the default values taken from the GoI wiki:
Dmg = 17.5
RoF = 8.33 b/s
Size = 82
Reload Time = 5s

We'll begin with greased:
+60% RoF = 13.33
+20% Size = 98
-20% Dmg = 14

(Size / Rof) * dmg
(98 / 13.33) * 14 = 102.93 Dmg/s

Now for heatsink:
+30% Size = 107
-17% Dmg = 14.53

(107 / 8.33) * 14.53 = 186.64 Dmg/s

So there is a big difference there, but there is the reload time to factor in. And we can factor that in easy. To find how long it takes to empty a clip, we can divide the size by the rate of fire. Then take the highest of the two, divided it by the lowest + reload time, and get a ratio between them.

(107/8.33) = 12.85
(98/13.33) = 7.35 + 5 = 12.35
12.85 / 12.35 = 1.04

So the greased round will become multiplied by 1.04 because it will finish off 4% of the next clip by the time the heatsink finishes its first.

102.93 * 1.04 = 107.05 Dmg / s

The gat with a heatsink round will do 186.64 Dmg / s, and a gat with greased rounds will do 107.05 Dmg / s. Making the heatsink 74.3% more effective than greased.
Also, if we instead take the amount of dmg / s in the same amount of time as the finishing of a greased round clip, it ends up being 106.38 dmg / s for heatsink. So it is still more either way, but by a considerably smaller margin. Only about 3% improvement.

Aside from the increased dmg / s, heatsink rounds also include a  +50% bonus in rotation speed, making it much faster to get on target. And finally, it is also immune to fire as long as the ammo is currently loaded.

TL;DR: Heatsink is 3%-75% more effective than greased at any given time, with the added tactical advantage of faster rotation speed and immunity to fire.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2016, 12:17:19 pm »
Try this http://ducksoficarus.servegame.com/

It takes 7.35 seconds to shoot greased @ 1039 armor damage
It takes 12.84 seconds for heatsink @ 1177 armor damage

In the extra 5.49 seconds that heatsink is still shooting, the greased gat has already reloaded

DPS per clip (armor)
91.7 heatsink
110.4 regular
141.4 greased

Total DPS
66.6 heatsink
74.1 regular
85 greased

On a side note: buffed greased can 1 clip the armor of any ship, including buffed galleon, while being repaired with mallet
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 12:43:32 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline ZnC

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Re: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2016, 12:20:44 pm »
Well, I'll break it down.

(Size / Rof) * dmg
This is wrong.

Dividing Clip Size with Rate of Fire gives you Firing Time. Firing Time is how long the gun stays firing.

Damage per Second = Clip Damage / Firing Time
If you take the total amount of damage in a clip (1372), and divide that with Firing Time (7.4), you get DPS.

Greased DPS = 186

You can work out the rest. :)

Offline ZnC

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Re: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2016, 12:41:40 pm »
Also when considering reload, remember to add it to both.

(107/8.33) = 12.85 + 5 = 17.85
(98/13.33) = 7.35 + 5 = 12.35

Offline FoxyBillClinton

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Re: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2016, 12:42:25 pm »
So you are saying if we take the amount of potential damage in a clip, 14dmg * 98 = 1372dmg, and divide by the fire time, 7.35s, to get 186.67dmg/s. Alright, and for heatsink, 14.53dmg * 107 = 1554.71dmg / 12.35s = 125.89dmg/s. So the greased wins by 48%. But there is that long reload time to consider as well. So multiplying by the reload time modifer, as I had described before, brings it to 187.21dmg/s. So greased will have the higher dps by 48.7%, but heatsink would have the higher dmg / clip by 13.5%. So if you were going up against say a gelleon or mobula, a heatsink would allow you to do more direct damage to the hull armor, but against something smaller like a squid or goldfish, it could strip the armor away faster. Interesting :p

Offline FoxyBillClinton

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Re: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2016, 12:45:27 pm »
Also when considering reload, remember to add it to both.

(107/8.33) = 12.85 + 5 = 17.85
(98/13.33) = 7.35 + 5 = 12.35

I didn't add to both because I wanted to know the extra fire time from the gats, not the total reload time. Because they were equal, the effect on dps would be null. I believe it is the equality property? (May stand corrected on that as well)

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2016, 12:54:47 pm »
So greased will have the higher dps by 48.7%, but heatsink would have the higher dmg / clip by 13.5%. So if you were going up against say a gelleon or mobula, a heatsink would allow you to do more direct damage to the hull armor, but against something smaller like a squid or goldfish, it could strip the armor away faster. Interesting :p

In-game rounding isn't always the exact value. It's also more useful to calculate specific damage vs a component rather than the total 7.5 piercing + 10 shatter dmg. Heatsink has 13.2% higher DPC, but it's not really relevant because that extra 138 armor damage takes greased .97 seconds. The window where heatsink does higher total damage is .48 seconds between the time heatsink finishes its first clip and greased begins its second clip. Before and after that .48 second period, greased is much more potent. The window where heatsink has higher total damage than regular ammo is larger, but in the end regular deals 11.3% higher DPS

Total damage is less important that DPS because damage is being repaired, for example by a mallet at a rate of 27.8 RPS (repair points per second)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 01:10:30 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline FoxyBillClinton

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Re: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2016, 01:00:45 pm »
Aww shucks, so my whole theory was wrong from the ground up :p Oh well, no one is perfect

Offline FoxyBillClinton

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Re: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2016, 01:02:05 pm »
I'll delete this thread in just a moment, want everyone who may have saw just my post to see the correct maths below

Offline ZnC

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Re: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2016, 01:14:59 pm »
No worries, everybody makes mistakes. It's nice to see another one passionate about Gunning mechanics though.

I change my mind many times about things I think are good/bad. However, I still do think many ammo combos are not very understood and underused (even by vets).

Offline nanoduckling

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Re: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2016, 01:33:10 pm »
Meh I wouldn't worry. I totally ballsed up lumberjack damage mechanics the other day on here. It happens. There is a related tactic to the one you are suggesting which uses burst rounds to maximize damage per clip and double break hull without the need for a reload. Not a fan of it but I haven't given it a try with some of the odder situations I'd like to try it in (double gat mobula for instance).

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2016, 02:45:41 pm »
I don't believe burst in gat. There are two arguments people use: holding fire when armor breaks (instead of reloading), and using the high DPC against galleons and junkers. Holding fire would only be useful against low armor ships like spire and goldfish which take about 4 seconds to rebuild with spanner- buying you one second. If you don't have enough shots left in the clip to break their armor a second time then you've wasted damage. Keep in mind that you're initially breaking armor 15% slower

When people calculate it against galleon they forget to add that the hull is being repaired. For the first clip you need to add +250 armor from the mallet hit. Buffed greased gat breaks buffed galleon armor twice as fast as buffed burst (7.28 vs 14.56 seconds). Without any buffs (including hull) greased breaks galleon armor 40% faster than burst. Buffed regular breaks 33% faster than buffed burst, and unbuffed regular is technically able to one-clip unbuffed armor making it 217% faster. It's not viable to assume they won't repair their armor, so the high DPC doesn't make up for the slow DPS
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 03:07:41 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline FoxyBillClinton

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Re: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2016, 03:42:35 pm »
I think I will actually leave this up because of the last couple of comments. Good mechanics advice and gunner strategy

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: How to better utilize Gats - A Case for Heatsinks
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2016, 03:52:41 pm »
For the first clip you need to add +250 armor from the mallet hit

I mean you need to add +250 for every mallet hit. Burst has 98 shots that take 13.8 seconds to shoot. You shoot and when there's 250 damage they mallet: a total of 1050 armor. To break this you need to shoot for 11.3 seconds, but after 9 seconds they mallet again. The high DPC doesn't help because the DPS is too low to one-clip

For max repairing the engi on the hull will use spanner until it has 250 damage and then mallet. This extends the life by 40 HP for every spanner until they mallet
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 04:03:47 pm by BlackenedPies »