Author Topic: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards  (Read 39428 times)

Offline Dementio

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #60 on: January 16, 2016, 10:02:25 am »
Who knew

Offline xedeon

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #61 on: January 16, 2016, 01:37:28 pm »
I like the idea of the title skirmisher being for any win in the scs and skirmisher champion being for, well, the champions. Maybe a few others such as veteran skirmisher for a win in 5 different weeks, and veteran skirmisher champion for being the champion 5 times. There might be some other title that works better out there, but the event is the Sunday Community SKIRMISH, so skirmisher is quite fitting in my opinion. Having titles for the scs might help or it might not, but it defiantly wont do anything bad.

Offline lolTSM

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2016, 05:14:22 pm »
Is there the ability to take titles away? If the champion title would only last a week; i.e. you had to rewin or 'defend' the title or risk losing it, I think could be kinda cool. But who knows what sort of uproar that could send the community into.

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2016, 06:21:09 pm »
I do disagree with this, loltsm.

Everyone around here is saying that the SCS is not supposed to be competitive.

I think that the SCS should be competetive.

So, I actually do agree with you, loltsm. But everyone around this thread doesn't.



« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 06:23:37 pm by Solidusbucket »

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2016, 10:32:23 pm »
I never had the impression that SCS was anything less than tryhard at the upper level

Refresh my memory: when was the last unorthodox match up successful?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 10:58:29 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2016, 10:35:53 pm »
My thought was that two ships of 4 players each showing up at the same time to play a game despite differences in time zones and life schedules with the expectation to remain playing the game for upwards 2 hours warrants serious play.

Kinda like a raid in them MMORPGs.

Seems like there should be something dedicated to silly builds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEiyBbP28g8
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 10:54:58 pm by Solidusbucket »

Offline Dementio

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2016, 11:13:14 pm »
Refresh my memory: when was the last unorthodox match up successful?

You haven't watched a lot of my matches, have you? Practically every build of mine except the basic Hades, double Art, double Carro Mobula screams unorthodoxism.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2016, 11:42:45 pm »
You haven't watched a lot of my matches, have you? Practically every build of mine except the basic Hades, double Art, double Carro Mobula screams unorthodoxism.

I try to watch every match. Mobula is the most versatile ship and you, probably the most confident mob pilot in the game, like to bring custom builds to counter the other team. Correct me, but the only mob loadout I'd call unorthodox is the piercing nightmare one. Maybe orthodox isn't the right word because otherwise almost all of my ships would be unorthodox. They're unique but most use orthodox strategy, so correct me if it's not the same for you. What unorthodox build do you regularly use? When did you last bring out the Great VGS?

I'm asking for the last unorthodox matchup. If a team or both teams had an unusual pairing of ships. I've seen plenty in other tournaments and vet matches, and Clan Clan comes to mind for SCS, but I have nothing in recent memory
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 12:06:50 am by BlackenedPies »

Offline Thomas

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2016, 11:56:26 pm »
Odd ship loadouts and tactics pop up pretty commonly in SCS, it's a great field for experimenting in. They generally don't do that well, but once in a very blue moon there's an interesting outcome. Some people take it more seriously than others of course, and they're generally going to win. But because there isn't a lot of incentive or pressure to win, not as many teams go full tryhard.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #69 on: January 17, 2016, 12:17:16 am »
Yes there often are odd ships in the lower brackets. I like watching those matches and seeing new teams, but they don't make it far when the metas come in. Some teams feel more pressure to win

I agree with Solidus
Quote
My thought was that two ships of 4 players each showing up at the same time to play a game despite differences in time zones and life schedules with the expectation to remain playing the game for upwards 2 hours warrants serious play.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 12:19:48 am by BlackenedPies »

Offline Fynx

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #70 on: January 17, 2016, 09:48:20 am »
What do you mean by an unorthodox match Pies? Does it require creative loadouts or creative tactics or combinations of these both?

We have few regular functions that ships have (+ combinations):
- disable/piercing
- piercing/explosive
- mines as chaos inducer or support
- blending
(Unless I forgot something)

I included mines here simply because many teams have been using mines more or less effectively for a long time now. Also one of mobulas that Daniel likes, that was not mentioned by you in the 'unorthodox' category uses a minelauncher as a primary weapon.

Ship loadouts can be
1. Meta
2. Not meta but utilising functions above
3. Original loadouts with potential (few and far in between)
4. Original loadouts without potential (those are more popular)

I'm quite amazed you put the piercing mobula that Daniel created into the 3. category. Other than having more piercing than other ships it would be a perfectly normal ship, if not for the non-trivial tactics included.

Other than that, people that don't bring meta loadouts almost always bring either ships from 2. category (and win or lose) or 4. category (that requires to be carried by the other ship).

Loadouts from 3. category are also usually very difficult to implement. I've experimented with a certain merc squid that required better pilot/crew coordination than one we had to make it a regular competitive loadout (possibly more practice). I myself attempted to use Daniel's piercing mobula, succeeding only to some extend, lacking the loadout understanding that Daniel has.
Sometimes these loadouts work only with a specific ally ship and require flawless coordination. A question arises: 'Then why not put them against some less meta loadouts so they can practice?'
It's an invalid question. If those ships don't work against meta initially, only practice against meta can make it so.

I do not know what to think of ships utilising minotaur, I consider them to be in any category outside meta.

In my opinion, far more interesting than specific loadouts are tactics employed. Watching a perfectly valid ship (meta or not) that does weird things together with his ally is much more entertaining than watching a non-standard ship pretending to be meta and doing the exactly same thing a meta ship would do, just not as effectively.

Also, there's plenty of loadouts that could work against meta, but opponents see that they can hardcounter those ships and they bring the hardest hardcounter possible, proudly proving their knowledge of hardcounters. And that's not the issue with the event being more or less competitive, but competely hopeless notion that the lobby is a place to gain advantage over the enemy at any cost rather than negotiate match-up teams are comfortable with. No, I will not agree that it's a problem with the event being competitive, it happens all the time in pubs. And meta ships can also be countered.

That's quite a long post I produced here, I hope it explains some aspects of what Thomas wrote:

Odd ship loadouts and tactics pop up pretty commonly in SCS, it's a great field for experimenting in. They generally don't do that well, but once in a very blue moon there's an interesting outcome. Some people take it more seriously than others of course, and they're generally going to win.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2016, 02:12:25 pm »
You expect Daniel to bring a mine mob on Paritan against brawl ships, but not against double meta junker (which he has done). The piercing mob is unorthodox because it has little disable (merc), low explosive (banshee), and restrictive arcs. There's no meta that uses a similar tactic, and few could tell you how to use it. I believe it's called the Fancy Fairy and I haven't seen it in a long time. One of my go-to brawl mobs is hades, greased banshee gat left, burst flak and top flame right. It's not a meta but you know exactly how it works. You might say it's a bit unorthodox to put a buff greased engi on the top
There was another Daniel mob more recently, I now recall, that used two gats and rammed a lot. I don't remember the other guns but I'd probably call it unorthodox

The minotaur is unorthodox only because people don't use it. Fish are the most vulnerable ship against the taur and spire is the best platform for it against fish. It wouldn't be strange to see a taur spire against a fish, except for the fact that people don't bring it. The one time I remember seeing a taur spire was from the Predators who were promptly stomped by meta ships

It's not just about seeing non-standard builds, but about the ships on both teams. I rarely see it at the upper level. The Predators have tried experimenting, but I don't remember being very successful because the opponents went meta. I won't argue semantics because I'm probably wrong, but I am genuinely asking when the last unorthodox matchup was (I wanna watch it). I see it more often in other tournaments and I assume that's because SCS is more competitive

Quote
In my opinion, far more interesting than specific loadouts are tactics employed. Watching a perfectly valid ship (meta or not) that does weird things together with his ally is much more entertaining than watching a non-standard ship pretending to be meta and doing the exactly same thing a meta ship would do, just not as effectively.
Can you give an example?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 02:38:44 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Fynx

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #72 on: January 17, 2016, 03:22:48 pm »
Can you give an example?

Just take two ships that are both useful in competitive, but it doesn't look like they fit each other.

I remember taking a squid (artemis gatling, but that could be a simple kill squid just as well) together with Daniel's long range galleon against Muse (that was actually a pretty mixed team) in B&B (Dunes). It was a hwachafish/lumberfish team so there were three fast and manouverable ships and one slow that had to position before engaging. That galleon was actually pretty unorthodox itself, but it's the idea of long range galleon and close range squid trying to coordinate effectively that you won't see very often in meta games.

Something about June or July we teamed up with Bards for the SCS. We took a blendersquid / blenderfish (nanoduckling) setup against Skyborne with hwachafish and hwachagalleon. Double blender setup is sort of interesting, but valid for close range maps. It's not really valid for long range maps against ships with lots of firepower, but the match-up itself was very entertaining and the result was 3-3 after a long fight.

At some point, being a little bit bored with competitive with not too many teams playing, I started taking mine squids in close range maps as chaos generators. Pairing that ship with a hwachafish resulted in aggressive matches that were quite different from any others. But I guess using mines offensively in close range maps is a popular idea nowadays, so maybe it's not worth mentioning.


I'm afraid I won't be able to say much about matches I did not participate in those last few months. Connection issues do not let me watch much during the competitive events, it's also the reason why I don't fly competitively anymore. I'm pretty sure that some unorthodox matches happen occasionally though. And there's still more variety than what was happening in the pyramidion era, back when Skrimskraw and Velvet were the organisers. There were at least 2 pyras per match on the average.

Offline nhbearit

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Re: New Sunday Community Skirmish Rewards
« Reply #73 on: January 17, 2016, 03:30:22 pm »
Skies will define unorthodox setups as he sees fit. No reason to attack him for it. If you feel your builds are "unorthodox" then good for you. If you want to discuss the meta, start a new thread for it. Or revive an old one, either way. Until then:

I get the feeling that people are reading too much into this.