youtube casters instead of lets players

[Arturo Sanchez]

Bringing in youtubers that are crap at the game has consistently given
the wrong impression for this game...

Many go in using those videos as reference and yet... those people
were so terrible.

How bout creating a competitive event casted by known youtubers instead.

Polaris network seems viable as they do have experience in the game
and sort of know the mechanics (they just kinda suck).

Show intense high quality play to hype up competitive play to not only
increase the new player ingress, but retain them by presenting the
game as it is.

A highly competitive game. The people that always come during sales
are the people that just want to play a game, like minecraft or
something.

You want the kind of people that follow fighting games and rts and fps
and moba. You need to call out to the competitive side of the gaming
community. Not the casual.
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Add star  Matthew Hartman<keyvias@musegames.com>   Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:34 PM
To: Skippy Rock <ceresbane@gmail.com>
Cc: feedback <feedback@musegames.com>
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Hello,

The biggest thing is lets players have a much larger audience and a much greater return.
While I agree that the lets players are not the best at the game they are showing the game and showing it honestly as most players will see it.

Competitive play is great, but it is not the only avenue of this game and not where a majority of our audience has come from or will come from.

For us when we do a marketing event we have to weigh the return and the effect of the event. For us the best return comes from lets players since their audiences are much more likely to purchase and like the game especially since they have seen what the game has to offer.
- Show quoted text -
--
-Matthew Hartman
Muse Games
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Add star  Howard Tsao<howard@musegames.com>   Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 9:41 PM
To: Matthew Hartman <keyvias@musegames.com>
Cc: Skippy Rock <ceresbane@gmail.com>, feedback <feedback@musegames.com>
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I like the idea. Ill try to make it happen, but a lot of what we do is contingent upon the prerogatives of the youtubers, for they are celebrities after all.  Thanks, Howard

Sent from my iPhone

[Extirminator]

I agree with Matthew on that one.

They want to expose a larger audience to the game, so they need to address people with high view counts. People with high view counts usually do this youtube thing for a living and thus don't have time to play a single game consistently to get good at it. Most of the people who watch them don't even care about the gameplay quality of the players but more about the commentary and laughs.

Are you watching competitive streams of games you never seen or played? - No.
Most viewers will not randomly watch a competitive match of a game they just got introduced to, and be engaged and moved by it - because they don't know how the game works, nor have they ever played it to understand it and the game's mechanics. Even players who already own the game or at least a large majority of them - for the first few months of their gaming, STILL don't take active part in competitive events, competitive play or generally care about competitive at all.
Competitive plays are only appealing to players who already play the game for a while now, and in order to make that pool bigger we need to add more players into it by having promotional events and sales. Only then will the competitive promotions will work, because there will be a larger targeted audience.
The only flaw is that old-school players are not staying around because of the frustration from the lack of content. So all you get is waves of new people, they get bored of the game and leave, and then waves of new people.


As a side note, the way you plainly copy pasted the entire conversation with Matthew and Howard and posted it online is pretty rude and disrespectful. If I were you I would take it down and put an actual message from you about the subject.

[BlackenedPies]

If you look up Guns of Icarus in youtube every video is new players guessing how to play. It was painful for me to watch the promotional videos because despite the entertainment there's too much mistakes and misinformation.

The promotional videos wouldn't stand up in pub matches. To show the game we need veterans alongside youtubers. Put celebrities on veteran ships in good lobbies and play real matches.

Competitive videos might help but it's not the answer. The game isn't difficult but it's not intuitive. Invite AJ, TB, or anyone else to join you and show our game.

[Carn]

If you look up Guns of Icarus in youtube every video is new players guessing how to play. It was painful for me to watch the promotional videos because despite the entertainment there's too much mistakes and misinformation.

The promotional videos wouldn't stand up in pub matches. To show the game we need veterans alongside youtubers. Put celebrities on veteran ships in good lobbies and play real matches.

Competitive videos might help but it's not the answer. The game isn't difficult but it's not intuitive. Invite AJ, TB, or anyone else to join you and show our game.

This isn't a bad idea. I'll admit, I first heard of this game because of youtubers, but it's painful to watch them try to play.

[DaOrks]

I agree with Matthew on that one.

They want to expose a larger audience to the game, so they need to address people with high view counts. People with high view counts usually do this youtube thing for a living and thus don't have time to play a single game consistently to get good at it. Most of the people who watch them don't even care about the gameplay quality of the players but more about the commentary and laughs.

Are you watching competitive streams of games you never seen or played? - No.
Most viewers will not randomly watch a competitive match of a game they just got introduced to, and be engaged and moved by it - because they don't know how the game works, nor have they ever played it to understand it and the game's mechanics. Even players who already own the game or at least a large majority of them - for the first few months of their gaming, STILL don't take active part in competitive events, competitive play or generally care about competitive at all.
Competitive plays are only appealing to players who already play the game for a while now, and in order to make that pool bigger we need to add more players into it by having promotional events and sales. Only then will the competitive promotions will work, because there will be a larger targeted audience.
The only flaw is that old-school players are not staying around because of the frustration from the lack of content. So all you get is waves of new people, they get bored of the game and leave, and then waves of new people.


As a side note, the way you plainly copy pasted the entire conversation with Matthew and Howard and posted it online is pretty rude and disrespectful. If I were you I would take it down and put an actual message from you about the subject.

There are youtubers like Northerlion (Binding Of Issac), Arumba (Eu4), Quill18 (Eu4/Civ5). They put out a shitload of videos on a single game and get very good at it. GoI just needs a youtuber like them to pick it up! (And hopefully not kill their channel by focusing on GoI)

[Newbluud]

I agree with Matthew on that one.

They want to expose a larger audience to the game, so they need to address people with high view counts. People with high view counts usually do this youtube thing for a living and thus don't have time to play a single game consistently to get good at it. Most of the people who watch them don't even care about the gameplay quality of the players but more about the commentary and laughs.

Are you watching competitive streams of games you never seen or played? - No.
Most viewers will not randomly watch a competitive match of a game they just got introduced to, and be engaged and moved by it - because they don't know how the game works, nor have they ever played it to understand it and the game's mechanics. Even players who already own the game or at least a large majority of them - for the first few months of their gaming, STILL don't take active part in competitive events, competitive play or generally care about competitive at all.
Competitive plays are only appealing to players who already play the game for a while now, and in order to make that pool bigger we need to add more players into it by having promotional events and sales. Only then will the competitive promotions will work, because there will be a larger targeted audience.
The only flaw is that old-school players are not staying around because of the frustration from the lack of content. So all you get is waves of new people, they get bored of the game and leave, and then waves of new people.


As a side note, the way you plainly copy pasted the entire conversation with Matthew and Howard and posted it online is pretty rude and disrespectful. If I were you I would take it down and put an actual message from you about the subject.

There are youtubers like Northerlion (Binding Of Issac), Arumba (Eu4), Quill18 (Eu4/Civ5). They put out a shitload of videos on a single game and get very good at it. GoI just needs a youtuber like them to pick it up! (And hopefully not kill their channel by focusing on GoI)

If only I had the charisma. I'm not amazing but I think I'm a decent mid-level player with aspirations of improvement. I've wanted some solid GoI content for some time now.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Hey I know, lets have tubers vs competitive teams and show people how its done by making the tubers cry like the little brats they are!

Exactly why Muse would never ask me or others here to help them showcase. Some of us don't have a "go easy on them" mode. We'd be like..."so they can get 1 kill?" Muse..."no, go easy on them!" Us.. "So let them get a kill. Gotcha!" Muse..."No thats not what I...sigh...please take crap builds, please?" Us..."Right, harpoons and mines and give them a kill, no problem boss!"

[Kamoba]

If you look up Guns of Icarus in youtube every video is new players guessing how to play. It was painful for me to watch the promotional videos because despite the entertainment there's too much mistakes and misinformation.

The promotional videos wouldn't stand up in pub matches. To show the game we need veterans alongside youtubers. Put celebrities on veteran ships in good lobbies and play real matches.

Competitive videos might help but it's not the answer. The game isn't difficult but it's not intuitive. Invite AJ, TB, or anyone else to join you and show our game.

This^

[Carn]

Hey I know, lets have tubers vs competitive teams and show people how its done by making the tubers cry like the little brats they are!

Exactly why Muse would never ask me or others here to help them showcase. Some of us don't have a "go easy on them" mode. We'd be like..."so they can get 1 kill?" Muse..."no, go easy on them!" Us.. "So let them get a kill. Gotcha!" Muse..."No thats not what I...sigh...please take crap builds, please?" Us..."Right, harpoons and mines and give them a kill, no problem boss!"

But but, that IS going easy! Gilder, why does muse want to nerf players?

[Hilary Briss]

Most of the buyers from the Youtube events saw their Idols just really being Scrubs and laughing lots. The followers see X laughing and getting a kill. Unfortunately the game is actually nothing like that, they merely show the OMG the Hull is down were going to die hahaha Derp.

Yes there is laughter, but not the way the you-tubers portray it. The game is far harder than they would have their audience believe.

Many of us spent - spend hours teaching (continue to do so) the influx of players in an effort to swell the player base. To then only to watch it plummet back down to original numbers + maybe 70 (being generous) or so new players after 2 weeks or so.

Youtube may well be a good way to advertise the game. But they really are giving the wrong impression of the game to far too many of their viewers.

Not saying the Events are bad. Just that they need to have the Tubers pitted against a competent crew of even the same level players to highlight the fact it takes a special kind of person to "Icarus"

Let me point out still 100% committed to the "Icarus project" and still doing my best to help it thrive.

My humble opinion.

[HamsterIV]

I agree that our game is poorly represented by the Youtube lets players. Every once in a while I watch one and am horrified by their ignorance and frequent mistakes. The Muse sponsored ones are a little better because usually there is a dev to explain mechanics, but even in those the mistakes are frequent.

I like BlackenedPies idea of integrating a Youtuber into a veteran crew. Most ships can withstand a little dead weight and there is always that one position that you can afford to stick a novice player (I call it the paste eater slot). Unfortunately I don't think the Youtubers would be down for this sort of thing as it would draw attention away from their individual antics and restrict their freedom to explore the game.

There is also the problem that the big decision in this game occasionally unfolds in a very non visual/intuitive ways. The difference of we are flying past our opponent because it looks cool and we are flying past our opponent because we don't have combat advantage and I want to reset the Gatling/hull strip counters before reengaging is almost imperceptible to some one who doesn't play the game. The veteran captain would have to narrate his/her decision making process, possibly upstaging the youtube "star."

[DJ Tipz N Trix]

The truth is that not everyone is suited for serious, high-level competitive play, and casual pickups (maybe even never-plays with the way steam sales end up) end up being the majority of the sales, whether you like it or not.  People need food on the table, and they need to sell to get food.  It is this way even in those RTS, FPS, and fighting games that you're talking about.  Heck, I know more people who picked up WCIII for its custom games (especially DotA) than the actual ladder.

[Arturo Sanchez]

I agree that our game is poorly represented by the Youtube lets players. Every once in a while I watch one and am horrified by their ignorance and frequent mistakes. The Muse sponsored ones are a little better because usually there is a dev to explain mechanics, but even in those the mistakes are frequent.

I like BlackenedPies idea of integrating a Youtuber into a veteran crew. Most ships can withstand a little dead weight and there is always that one position that you can afford to stick a novice player (I call it the paste eater slot). Unfortunately I don't think the Youtubers would be down for this sort of thing as it would draw attention away from their individual antics and restrict their freedom to explore the game.

There is also the problem that the big decision in this game occasionally unfolds in a very non visual/intuitive ways. The difference of we are flying past our opponent because it looks cool and we are flying past our opponent because we don't have combat advantage and I want to reset the Gatling/hull strip counters before reengaging is almost imperceptible to some one who doesn't play the game. The veteran captain would have to narrate his/her decision making process, possibly upstaging the youtube "star."

Hence my ultimate suggestion was them casting. Out of the way.

"but they wouldn't be able to play!"

Youtube casters, not lets players.


frankly... until alliance mode comes in (maybe not even then-because I wouldn't want a crap ally in coop). This game is not for dirty casuals.

Its for the competitive scene. And I don't feel muse has been tapping into the very hardcore community of that at all.

[Kamoba]

Hardcore competitive tournament being those who take part in regular skrims and tournaments, and "dirty casuals" who only play public matches?

[ZnC]

While skirmish is more competitive oriented, I don't think the vision for GOIO is just that. Casual players should also be able to enjoy GOIO, and Alliance is going to help a lot with that. I'm sure that it'll be much more newb-friendly for streamers and gamers who just don't want play competitively, but want to play GOIO.