Author Topic: Questions about the ENGINEER  (Read 22643 times)

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Questions about the ENGINEER
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2013, 09:40:38 am »
I agree on 1 and 4 with Helmic.

2. For that specific loadout, you better have a pipe wrench. I can't describe the frustration when I see a random engi running round with a buff and spanner/mallet. Pipe wrench gives you the sacrificial jack of all trades, master of none, but the buff helps you compensate. I can't think of an instance where a mallet or spanner will be good for the entire match full of varying situations.

3. Unless you are in a group like Polaris and can pull off that kind of coordination, than take spyglass. Like Smollett said though, a coordinated team effort can make for interesting gameplay, though because of its layout, the Spire will benefit most by it.

Offline Ailen

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Re: Questions about the ENGINEER
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2013, 10:58:40 am »
In fact, we were sure that we will win the battle against Pastafarians as we flew with them before and it was obvious that our crew are just more skilled.

But in the next game we will be playing against at least equal to the enemy. We all want to see how the work of our unconventional tactics against classical and proven combinations.
Perhaps we have no chance, but it will be interesting.

As regards of moonshine, at the second engineer - we do not work to use it effectively, but we believe that this is possible.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 11:46:34 am by Ailen »

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Questions about the ENGINEER
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2013, 03:56:08 pm »
1. No. You have to look at how often the wrench will be more efficient than the mallet (not often) versus how long the mallet will be better (almost all the time). In the end, you'll lose a lot more from it than you could possibly gain.

2. Once again, no. You can't afford to lose the ability to either repair or rebuild quickly. Ever. As an engineer you need to be able to do both.

3. As explained by others, there's a lot of coordination required, and if the captain chose their items well then the benefit will probably be negligible.

4. Making sure their guns are loaded with the right ammo and full clips (because even primary engineers have to shoot sometimes), and preparing to repair (staying near the hull or being able to quickly access it).

Offline Helmic

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Re: Questions about the ENGINEER
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2013, 05:11:14 pm »
I agree on 1 and 4 with Helmic.

2. For that specific loadout, you better have a pipe wrench. I can't describe the frustration when I see a random engi running round with a buff and spanner/mallet. Pipe wrench gives you the sacrificial jack of all trades, master of none, but the buff helps you compensate. I can't think of an instance where a mallet or spanner will be good for the entire match full of varying situations.

3. Unless you are in a group like Polaris and can pull off that kind of coordination, than take spyglass. Like Smollett said though, a coordinated team effort can make for interesting gameplay, though because of its layout, the Spire will benefit most by it.

2. As people keep mentioning in the fire thread, it's not incredibly risky having just one engineer with an extinguisher on some ships, particularly the Goldfish.  Mallet/spanner/buff allows you to rapidly repair AND buff in between those repairs.  A single engineer with that loadout can fight an enemy carronade very well by allowing the captain to rise rapidly without sacrificing balloon HP, or give the hull a bit more HP if they switch out with the main engineer while he goes to combat engine or balloon fires.  If there's three engineers I almost expect the buff engineer to go mallet/spanner/hammer, there's just not enough components to catch fire to justify that third extinguisher and there's plenty of reason to repair and rebuild faster than a gunner.

Of course, there's also the theoretical situation where you KNOW there just won't be any fires period and you have your main engineer go mallet/spanner/wrench and the buff engineer go mallet/spanner/hammer.  Buff the hull and keep it at 100% using the most efficient tool at the moment.

3.  Even with the coordination the benefit seems pretty situational and negligible, it seems like Polaris would have won that match no matter what just by the sheer difference in skill so I'd have to wait to see them pull off something equally insane against the Paddling and win with it to be convinced.  Maybe in CP?  At least there being down an engineer doesn't mean as much when traveling from point to point, you're not likely to take a lot of damage unexpectedly or need to shoot a gun without plenty of warning.

2. Once again, no. You can't afford to lose the ability to either repair or rebuild quickly. Ever. As an engineer you need to be able to do both.

Except gungineers may get more use out of a mallet if they're never leaving their gun, just as a lot of people taking the gunner role like to bring a mallet over a pipe wrench.  In which case they're just using buff and chemspray (to get the effect of charged, heatsink, AND their preferred ammo type at little penalty) in place of two extra ammo types.  I'd still advocate the pipe wrench for both gunners and buff gungineers, but it's not quite as black and white as it is with his first question.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Questions about the ENGINEER
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2013, 05:20:00 pm »
Except gungineers may get more use out of a mallet if they're never leaving their gun, just as a lot of people taking the gunner role like to bring a mallet over a pipe wrench.  In which case they're just using buff and chemspray (to get the effect of charged, heatsink, AND their preferred ammo type at little penalty) in place of two extra ammo types.  I'd still advocate the pipe wrench for both gunners and buff gungineers, but it's not quite as black and white as it is with his first question.

The moment the ship gets hit with a hwacha, then it'll take too long to rebuild for any substantial damage to be done.  This goes for when you're being attack by any other component-disabling guns. This is without mentioning how the gungineer probably has other responsibilities anyways. They'll need mallet/spanner for the balloon on the Pyra or Spire, for keeping guns and engines up and occasionally helping up top on the Galleon, etc.

Offline Helmic

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Re: Questions about the ENGINEER
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2013, 05:39:52 pm »
The moment the ship gets hit with a hwacha, then it'll take too long to rebuild for any substantial damage to be done.  This goes for when you're being attack by any other component-disabling guns. This is without mentioning how the gungineer probably has other responsibilities anyways. They'll need mallet/spanner for the balloon on the Pyra or Spire, for keeping guns and engines up and occasionally helping up top on the Galleon, etc.

But if you're not fighting disablers and you're that third gungineer, you might be more concerned about keeping your own gun at 100% (particularly a Hwacha which starts backtalking at the slightest hair of damage and can take multiple mallet strikes to bring to full) and the odd component like the balloon on a Pyramidion when it's not going to take concentrated fire.

I've actually made use of this on my Pyramidion by having buff engineers and gunners that aren't keen on switching their roles take the balloon gun.  If I get flanked or attacked by multiple enemies it's easy to just have the mallet on the balloon as the enemy is likely going to worry more about taking out my hull and engines.  The engines and hull need to stay up and the balloon is unlikely to take concentrated fire, so whoever's up top needs to worry more about staying ahead of the damage so they can possibly return fire every once in a while rather than babysit at equillibrium.  It's certainly less likely to pay off in most situations and that's why I prefer the pipe wrench, but it's certainly going to be more useful in more situations than sacrificing a spyglass for moonshine.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Questions about the ENGINEER
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2013, 05:47:01 pm »
But if you're not fighting disablers and you're that third gungineer

That's entirely different. If you're a third engineer, then you shouldn't be taking that loadout at all. Mallet/spanner/buff would be clearly better.

Offline Helmic

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Re: Questions about the ENGINEER
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2013, 05:50:03 pm »
But if you're not fighting disablers and you're that third gungineer

That's entirely different. If you're a third engineer, then you shouldn't be taking that loadout at all. Mallet/spanner/buff would be clearly better.

Or a very confident second engineer, though I don't disagree at all that mallet/spanner/buff is valid as fuck and better in most situations.  For someone that would've brought a pipe wrench anyways, though, a mallet is also a possible choice if you know you won't be rebuilding that often because the enemy lacks disablers.  If a mallet is sometimes good for a gunner, it's going to be good for a buff gungineer in some situations as well.  It's not quite as out there as the other examples he asked about.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 05:54:14 pm by Helmic »

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Questions about the ENGINEER
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2013, 06:04:05 pm »
If a mallet is sometimes good for a gunner, it's going to be good for a buff gungineer in some situations as well.  It's not quite as out there as the other examples he asked about.

But I find that the mallet works best for the gunner in situations where the gunner is counting on the engineers to help rebuild, e.g. on the Goldfish or Galleon.