Author Topic: Guns for Gunners  (Read 4584 times)

Offline ZnC

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Guns for Gunners
« on: July 06, 2015, 02:01:41 pm »
"Do I even need a gunner?..."

Hello~

Looking at some discussions on triple engi vs gunner, I wanted to share my view. This is how I classify weapons based on whether they benefit from the gunner's range optimization, improved arcs, and/or quicker reload.

Gunner Guns
  • Lumberjack [Lesmok, Charged/Greased/Heatsink, Loch]
  • Heavy Carronade [Heavy, Charged, Incendiary/Lesmok]
  • Heavy Flak [Charged, Lesmok, Loch]
These guns are the best for a gunner due to the benefit of having multiple ammo types, and their use of stamina for better arcs and reload.

Gunner and Buff-gineer Guns
  • Hwacha [Gunner: Heavy, Burst] or [Engi: Burst]
  • Minotaur [Gunner: Heavy, Greased] or [Engi: Heavy]
  • Hades [Gunner: Lesmok, Greased] or [Engi: Lesmok]
  • Merc [Gunner: Lesmok, Charged] or [Engi: Charged]
  • Mine Launcher [Gunner: Lesmok, Charged, Loch] or [Engi: Lesmok]
This category is the most interesting as it depends on the situations you will get into, and personal preference. If the ship is confident in their ability to stay within optimal range, they would generally be better off with an engineer. For example, if a Hwachafish is able to get up close and use Burst ammo all the time, there would be no need for Heavy Clip. With the addition of stamina however, Gunners can get important Hwacha volleys out quicker or when the enemy is slightly out of arc.

I personally think that it doesn't change much and urge pilots to let your crew decide based on their preference.

Buff-gineer Guns
  • Gatling
  • Mortar
  • Light Flak
  • Flamer
  • Banshee
  • Artemis
  • Light Carronade
  • Flare
  • Harpoon
These guns simply do not benefit from having a gunner; they only require a single ammo type and don't utilize gunner stamina well. Instead, a buff hammer would greatly improve the efficiency of the Gatling, Mortar, Light Flak, Banshee, Artemis, and Light Carronade.

Of course, there is no hard and fast rule to playing the game, but it is interesting to see that most heavy weapons could use a gunner. Remember it is not always about optimizing damage output with buffs; the gunner's ability to improve arcs is unique and valuable, especially in tight situations when you need them the most.

[G] ZanC

Offline Kamoba

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2015, 03:01:19 pm »
Gunner, heavy carronade: loch. One shot pop, and it is also very painful on pyramidion and lower armour value ships.

I agree with all the rest too.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2015, 04:41:26 pm »
They're all buff engi guns. The only gun that clearly benefits from gunner is the mine launcher, but my favorite mine junker is triple engi double buff (mines left, gat mortar right).

I'm glad I stopped using gunners on lumberjack except meta galleon. Spanner mallet buff engi is the way to go. Gunners are situational.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 04:43:49 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Dementio

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2015, 04:45:40 pm »
Gunners are for Fancy situations.

Get it?

Offline DJ Logicalia

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2015, 05:41:20 pm »
I get it

Offline Replaceable

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2015, 05:54:18 pm »
Gunners are for Fancy situations.

Get it?

I came back to this forum just to salute this.

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2015, 06:58:22 pm »
IMO lesmok is not viable on two-shot weapons like heavy flak or merc or carronade. Losing half your clipsize hurts too much.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2015, 07:39:26 pm »
IMO lesmok is not viable on two-shot weapons like heavy flak or merc or carronade. Losing half your clipsize hurts too much.

Sometimes on heavy flak because one shot is powerful enough and it's difficult to hit at long range. Lesmok merc can only be used against heavy weapons because anything else (besides heavy engine) can be out repaired. I don't recommend using lesmok merc because charged has plenty range (over 2200) and it's good practice. Lesmok H carro is a big no.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2015, 07:49:11 pm »
Gunners also have their uses on ships where they are expected to man different guns depending on situation, asymmetric junkers for example.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2015, 08:37:58 pm »
Gunners also have their uses on ships where they are expected to man different guns depending on situation, asymmetric junkers for example.

The counter argument to this is that gunners' ammo types are generally used for modifying your weapon's range. Junker in itself is a platform where you can modify ranges. Why switch to greased hades to deal with a charging enemy when you can just turn the gat mortar side? One of the junker's most optimal uses is triple engineer.



Though I do admit, gunner seems to work okay on it too.

Offline Extirminator

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2015, 06:44:46 am »
The counter argument to this is that gunners' ammo types are generally used for modifying your weapon's range. Junker in itself is a platform where you can modify ranges. Why switch to greased hades to deal with a charging enemy when you can just turn the gat mortar side? One of the junker's most optimal uses is triple engineer.

That is one case versus dozens of viable gun combos that will require the use of gunner because of diverse ammo type usage. The Hades just happens to be a commonly used gun.

Also, if you aren't able to kill the enemy in time for whichever reason, a junker - especially moving backwards to generate only 50% of its thrust will be easily caught up with the charging ship quite fast, sometimes fast enough that turning around will simply take too long and will just kill you.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2015, 08:41:10 pm »

Also, if you aren't able to kill the enemy in time for whichever reason, a junker - especially moving backwards to generate only 50% of its thrust will be easily caught up with the charging ship quite fast, sometimes fast enough that turning around will simply take too long and will just kill you.


And this is one of the many reasons claw exists. I can understand the point, however.


And this is also one of the many combos that encourage this playstyle. What happens if you have a double brawl side? Now you're the one charging in. Generally.

Offline Pomalo D'Estyr

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2015, 09:08:03 pm »
I'd argue that the gatling benefits from diverse ammo.

As a gunner, on a pyramidion, I usually load lesmok to start bringing the armor down from further away, once that clip is finised, if we're close, I'd switch to greased, and if the first volley of mortar doesn't bring the ship down, I'd switch to incendiary to make the life of the engineer harder.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2015, 10:51:05 pm »
Gat always does more damage with a buff hammer and buffed regular is better than greased. Avoid using incendiary because it reduces dps by 28% and won't break armor faster. Gat has no benefit from gunner over a buff engi.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 10:54:14 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Pomalo D'Estyr

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Re: Guns for Gunners
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2015, 01:26:13 am »
I humbly think that it's not taking into consideration that there's going to be an engie on it. It takes around 10 sec to empty a gatling clip, which allows for 2 mallets hits, but if they have to put out a fire, it's only one mallet hit, which might make a difference.

And again, on some maps, with some ships, the ability to start firing from a longer range with lesmok can also tip the odds in your favor, typically if you face a ship with a very similar build as yours, or if you run a ship that has two gats firing on the same target.