Incendiary, Heatsink, Lochnagar

[Hoja Lateralus]

Looking at Wundsalz glorious guide, I notice that three ammos tend to have very low qualities and usage and those are the ones mentioned in the thread.



We've talked about incendiary in this thread and as I said I think that decreasing rate of fire debuff from -30% to -15% or -10% (test it in DevApp, yo). Perhaps you have any other ideas?

Possible heatsink buff was discussed in this thread and personally I think the best idea would be to increase heatsink firefighting capability, either through more stack decrease or adding some stack decrease after time. Then gunner could be less dependant on engineers at least on extinguishing their guns.

Lochnagar...hmm, that's a pickle. I don't know what to do with that one, but it would be nice to see it as valid choice on more than 2-3 guns.

What do you guys think?

[Kamoba]

I like Loch as it is myself, ideal for heavy carronade, heavy flak, mines, merc, flares (lol), harpoon (hehe) and since stamina release, less painful for gunners to use, making it less painful for lower level gunners.

Incendiary and Heatsink, I'd like to see them a bit more effective, this way when the gunner does not change off heat sink for fear of fire, I don't have to panic we won't get a kill.

As a cake "pyro" (technic/maniac debatable) I would be very happy to see incendiary buffed!

[VomAct]

Incendiary definitely could use a rate of fire or clip size buff, but heatsink and lochnagar are both extremely useful in their particular niches.  The only gun I ever use incendiary on really are mines, but it is essential for the proper operation of mines (but that is really it for now).

Heatsink is essential for an isolated gunner to keep their guns shooting, especially since the flamer changes can make it difficult for engineers to keep up with the extinguishing/chemspray cycles.  I almost always have it as my third gunner ammo for just that reason. Heatsink is also definitely worthwhile  on mercury for the third shot and combat flares for the same reason.

Lochnagar is perfect the way it is imo, also essential for mines, heavy carronade, Lumberjack, and heavy flak.  It may only be valid in 4 guns, but your NEED it for each of those guns.

[Richard LeMoon]

My thoughts on Incendiary were to reduce the damage by 70% or so, increase rate of fire and chance of fire, and double the clip size. These changes would make it a unique item in the game, rather than that one low damage ammo that might set fires. I would also like to see your own gun catch on fire through use.

[Kamoba]

My thoughts on Incendiary were to reduce the damage by 70% or so, increase rate of fire and chance of fire, and double the clip size. These changes would make it a unique item in the game, rather than that one low damage ammo that might set fires. I would also like to see your own gun catch on fire through use.

Almost like an ammo that makes weapons closer to a flamer, but with a draw back...

I like it:)

[BlackenedPies]

Incendiary flamer shouldn't significantly outperform greased. Increasing rof to -15% would make it 1.4% more fires/sec than greased at -20 meters. That is fair but any incendiary buff needs to keep the flame in mind.

[Richard LeMoon]

Of course it should outperform greased in setting fires. Greased is already king on too many guns. I would also reduce velocity by a much greater amount. Perhaps even 50%. This would reduce the range by quite a bit.

They were working on reducing max range without reducing velocity. That would be a better option, actually.

[BlackenedPies]

Lemoon you want every piece of the game radically changed. The range isn't changing and all we want is to balance incendiary the way it is, and to make it useful in the guns it has potential in like the gat, lumber, and light carro. Reducing damage to 30% while increasing rof, fire chance, and doubling clip would completely change its use in current guns, and in my opinion make it near useless.

The question is what is the best and easiest change that pleases people. My vote is affecting dps because the fire chance is good at 40% total (could be slightly boosted) and the -30% range is perfect. The only thing holding it back is that dps is way too low, and radical changes are unnecessary when there's a simple fix. I'd like to see incendiary have use on guns like banshee or hades, and we want to hear new ideas that balance, not remake, the game.

My point with greased vs incendiary flame is that greased already starts enough fires and I consider it a good upper limit. I don't think incendiary should significantly outperform greased but I have no qualms if it ends up being super greased flamethrower. I don't think it would be at all balanced but I don't care enough to dispute.

[Richard LeMoon]

It is already near useless, and is not unique enough to bring over all other ammos. I only take it as a joke ammo to nerf my ship. It needs a radical change, or to just be removed and replaced with something interesting. Upping the damage just makes it more like the other ammo types.

Also, the is quite rude to make assumptions as to what I want, and to what extent. I actually like most of the mechanics exactly as they are.

[BlackenedPies]

Yes it's rude and I was requesting an edit to the first sentence. You're free to your many opinions. Increasing dps would make it viable enough for gunners to bring on certain guns, and I would try it on side squid carronade (mine carro mine). The main benchmark should be the gat (players want it), how do we give it use on the gat without over effecting other guns. Dps is the obvious choice to me and would also increase fires started.

[Daft Loon]

An idea for lochnagar: -50% clip size, self damage applied when you stop shooting (including reload, not sure how it would work with semi automatic trigger style guns). I can see it being problematic on lumberjack and maybe gat-mortar but it might be fixable without breaking the current uses. Maybe also x1.5 ignition chance.

For incendiary I'd support better rate of fire and -40% speed to buff it slightly on arming time weapons and make the range a concern on the flamer to offset better ignition than greased.

Im mostly fine with heatsink, that it is a passable damage option as well as doing what it does for fires makes it good, maybe making it more like extinguisher and less like chemspray: 10 stacks extinguish, -50% ignition chance. The fire immunity seems mostly to benefit less used guns that dont have the reload vulnerability.

[Arturo Sanchez]

lol Kamoba I would never let a low level gunner use lochnager.

I've watched too many noob gunners miss with gatling guns to trust a low level gunner to be as accurate as required to shoot loch.

two things can be done to loch.

decrease its part dmg and the ammo dmg it does as a result.
Or increase the gun dmg it does and increase the ammo dmg it does.

If  lochnager was increased to one shot destroy a fully healthy heavy gun with damage proportionate to that nerf. more people would definitely use it.

whether thats balanced tho... thats debatable. on paper it is. buff the dmg equal to the nerf via gun dmg. seems fair enough, numbers for numbers.



Inci ammo. 3 secs after the part is shot, it is immune to anti fire (if not already fire protected). with 30 sec cool down of the effect. so no anti anti fire effect until 27 seconds after it wears off and the part is hit again.

[Kamoba]

Letting low level gunners use Loch helps me teach them to repair their own guns, it has also proven effective at teaching a lot of them how to use Stamina. "My gun don't move with this ammo!" [insert stamina explanation here.] "Ohhh okay..." They often break their gun if they don't listen to my advice to repair, but this just helps me proves why they should repair the gun. Obviously though you patience levels I wouldn't advise you to give them loch.

But I stand by Loch not needing any changes.

In causing loch to break a heavy gun, this is not balanced in comparison to rebuild times of heavy guns and light guns. It would make it pointless on the heavy guns, damage buff kept into account.

Lochs uses are fine as are, its a niche ammo that requires a bit of sense to use, but in the right conditions can make a whole world of difference.