Artemis Rocket Launcher

[Machiavelliest]

It takes one direct hit or two area hits to destroy a component (at least in Sandbox--don't know if component health is higher in the actual game).  It's basically a Light Hwacha, except that it's far more surgical.  The mass explosive damage isn't there.

So now that we all like it, do you think it's overpowered?  My main gripe is getting hit in the face with an Artemis volley then having my engines destroyed.

[-Muse- Cullen]

I'm starting to see people replace the flak with it... so... it looks like the meta is shifting.

[Machiavelliest]

I'm starting to see people replace the flak with it... so... it looks like the meta is shifting.

Some might say that's OP, but it makes the repair game a lot better than "Eng camp the hull."  Gat/flak is still deadly, but a well-placed Artemis can do some great surgery on an enemy ship.

[Ofiach]

I dunno if you can call a gun OP just because cogs level players can wreck with it. The majority of people I've seen using it are hopeless with it. They maybe hit 3 shots out of ten.

[Lord Dick Tim]

I'm with ofiach, in random play the Gatling/flak was still more reliable killing power than any combination with the Artemis.  But in the hands of practiced person it was a wrecking ball weapon that kept my ship locked down.

[Captain Smollett]

I'm still on the fence about the Artemis. 

The thing that strikes me as funny about this whole debate, is that the Artemis is no more powerful now then it ever was.  Though the projectile speed was buffed, and it's certainly easier to be accurate with, it was just as crippling in 1.14 as it is now. 

Basically before, the general consensus was that it was underpowered, and though I agreed to a certain extent, it was still good enough for me to bring it into two Cogs matches prior to 1.2 .

Now with the less than 20% boost in projectile speed and an increased gun arc (which to be fair was always large) the general consensus now is that it is overpowered.

So, I suppose if public opinion were to be counted on as reliable, the way to bring the gun back into balance would simply be to decrease the gun arc and weapon speed to some point in between when it was underpowered and overpowered. 

Though I have to wonder whether it's that the gun is overpowered, or people are just discovering for the first time that the gun was good to begin with.  Quite frankly I enjoy seeing more light guns being used as viable weapons in combat, and I think it's pretty awesome for another weapon to be just as threatening to see in combat as a light flak albeit for a totally different reason.

[Malarosa Agresti]

Though I have to wonder whether it's that the gun is overpowered, or people are just discovering for the first time that the gun was good to begin with.

Almost certainly the former.  Yah give something even the smallest buff and people are gonna hop on it with a fresh perspective.

[JaceBoojah]

I have no strong OPinion of wealth the Artemis is OP... but my new favorite build is a Artemis trifecta junker.
Anyway here are some possibly accurate (everything is just based on numbers I was given) numbers about the Artemis.

When I think of the difference between medium guns and light guns I compare one medium gun vs 2 light guns (goldfish/pyra).

Hwacha half power/Light Flak/Artimis:
DPS
PARTS:        134.4/  31.6/    179.3
HULL:          25.3/    112/      38.4
BALLOON:      9.8/    20/       15.6
ARMOR:        10.6/   24/       16.8

Add to this that Artemis is easier to shoot and has far greater range.
double Artemis squid would be more effective then a hwacha fish!!!

[N-Sunderland]

double Artemis squid would be more effective then a hwacha fish!!!

That pretty much sums it up. It's like a hwacha with way, way less reload.

[Sammy B. T.]

I have been a proponent of the gun for a while now. I think because of the added arc and projectile speed though, its more accessible/easier to use and therefore people are seeing how great it always has been.

[N-Sunderland]

I have been a proponent of the gun for a while now. I think because of the added arc and projectile speed though, its more accessible/easier to use and therefore people are seeing how great it always has been.

I disagree. I think that while it's become easier to use, the more important reason for its sudden rise in popularity is how easy it's become to use it in conjunction with other guns. You couldn't stick it on a Pyra too comfortably before, since the arc wasn't wide enough to get a good trifecta often enough. Same goes for the Junker. With the increase in arc it's stupidly easy to get a trifecta, and so you can now use it alongside gat/flak or whatever you want. Losing the odd engine from 1500 metres away isn't too much of a problem, but if you lose your engines while gatflak is distracting your main engi, you're in serious trouble. The arc makes all the difference.

[Helmic]

While a higher arc and faster speed do make it easier to use, it also increases the capabilities of those that can use it effectively as well.  As Sunderland said, the increased arc makes it a scary primary AND secondary weapon, it can be place on any slot and be a terror.  I've seen it wreck shit off of the ass of a Galleon.  The increase projectile speed means no amount of dodging is going to save you and makes lesmok a joke, you go burst for a humongous AoE that can disable whatever part of the ship you're facing.  Mind you it also does respectable hull damage, so you can pair it with a gatling to make a terrifyingly efficient disable/kill machine.  At least with the flak it was only ever effective alongside a gatling reducing its use to the Pyramidion and Junker and the odd Squid with a lot of balls.

The projectile speed in particular is worth mentioning again, that's NOT just lowering the skill floor for the weapon.  No matter how accurate you are a gunner, there are shots you simply cannot land because the enemy ship moved while the projectile was in transit, they moved in a way you could not have predicted.  It's why even Phoebe can't always win every match ever just by being on a Lumberjack.  What this means for the Artemis is that what used to take a specific circumstance (the pilot has lined up a great shot) can now be done all the time without fail given moderate skill (disabling the enemy's engines while going fast laterally).

This is just for higher skilled players.  In everyone else's hands, it's gone from horribly inaccurate to a reliable hitter.  It's dangerously close to completely overtaking the Hwacha and it just utterly outclasses the flamethrower which already was having a hard time dealing with chemspray.  A disabler/killer that turns fast, hits far, and does it all in record time?  The only thing the flamethrower has going for it now over the Artemis is its ability to kill the balloon and that alone isn't enough to justify its use.

It's stepping on a lot of other weapon's toes at the moment.  The flak did one thing and one thing only, kill the enemy when its armor is down.  The Hwacha did one thing and that was disable, and maybe kill if a gatling came in (meaning you got roughly 3 guns' worth on the enemy at once).  I don't think the artemis should be brought back entirely to where it was pre-patch and I'm very glad stuff other than flak/gatling is viable on light ships, but as effective as the weapon is right now this is what you'd expect out of a primary slot weapon, not what you'd get out of a backup slot.

[N-Sunderland]

This doesn't happen very often, Helmic, but I fully agree. Salute.

[Captain Smollett]

I disagree. I think that while it's become easier to use, the more important reason for its sudden rise in popularity is how easy it's become to use it in conjunction with other guns. You couldn't stick it on a Pyra too comfortably before, since the arc wasn't wide enough to get a good trifecta often enough. Same goes for the Junker. With the increase in arc it's stupidly easy to get a trifecta, and so you can now use it alongside gat/flak or whatever you want. Losing the odd engine from 1500 metres away isn't too much of a problem, but if you lose your engines while gatflak is distracting your main engi, you're in serious trouble. The arc makes all the difference.

.
Well, I'll have to disagree with your disagreement. I primarily used the Artemis as a trifecta weapon on the pyra prior to 1.2 though it certainly is easier to do now with the additional turn arc.

[RearAdmiralZill]

I disagree. I think that while it's become easier to use, the more important reason for its sudden rise in popularity is how easy it's become to use it in conjunction with other guns. You couldn't stick it on a Pyra too comfortably before, since the arc wasn't wide enough to get a good trifecta often enough. Same goes for the Junker. With the increase in arc it's stupidly easy to get a trifecta, and so you can now use it alongside gat/flak or whatever you want. Losing the odd engine from 1500 metres away isn't too much of a problem, but if you lose your engines while gatflak is distracting your main engi, you're in serious trouble. The arc makes all the difference.

.
Well, I'll have to disagree with your disagreement. I primarily used the Artemis as a trifecta weapon on the pyra prior to 1.2 though it certainly is easier to do now with the additional turn arc.

I'm pretty sure this is the point. Why buff it's arc more when it was already possible to get into a trifecta, albelt harder? That's the key, it was harder to do. Now you have the easier trifecta, plus the easier shots with the added speed of the projectile. 1.1.5, you had to use lesmok to get good shots in at max range, but that lowered the clip and turn speed, making it harder to kill multiple components since you didnt have added AOE. Now you just throw burst in and have fun shooting wildly, hitting longer shots and with up to 3 of them going at once.

I have no problem with guns becoming useful over meta. Heck, you all should know I actively try to break meta. But it's my belief that it was simply made too easy to use/get hits on certain components. This is why I suggested scaling back the buff in a way that still gives it the small "umph" it needed in 1.1.5.