Author Topic: Adventure mode wish list  (Read 9790 times)

Offline MasX

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Adventure mode wish list
« on: April 10, 2013, 05:08:55 pm »
Player ran economy
A place where you can Dock your ship and walk around
Player own businesses
In ship mini games like poker blackjack
Gambling
Fuel and  ammo that isn't infinite
Ship to ship communication never knows friendly
Newspaper telling events of the icarus world possibly player ran
Events like duels or races

Doesn't hurt to dream right

Offline Chango

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2013, 05:35:13 pm »
I am most looking forward to co-op. I want some impossible missions that are scored by the best survival time.

Offline Typhi

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 06:50:31 pm »
I hope ammo will stay infinite, it will cause imbalance and other sorts of stupid stuff. If you like buying ammo, I suggest playing Entropia Universe ;)

With the rest of your points I agree :) I hope they will make it into the game ^^

Offline MasX

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2013, 06:57:18 pm »
I hope ammo will stay infinite, it will cause imbalance and other sorts of stupid stuff. If you like buying ammo, I suggest playing Entropia Universe ;)

With the rest of your points I agree :) I hope they will make it into the game ^^


How so    limited  ammo and fuel would make every journey  tense and uncertain
Which adds to the overall feel maybe fuel is to much but currently a limited on ammo

Offline Typhi

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2013, 07:22:42 pm »
I agree on fuel, I disagree on ammo. I see where you want to go, but it will make the game too much of a grind probably. I mean if you walk the path you want to go, why not buy ships? And if they get destroyed you need to buy new ones.... or actually... grind new ones....

If that is what you like, than perhaps EVE Online is the game just for you ;) I really like your idea though, and the feeling/tense you want to create, but I think it's a bit to hardcore for this game.

Offline MasX

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2013, 07:39:33 pm »
 eve is a great game but boring as hell if icarus can borrow
From eve it would be an amazing game.  Down fall of eve is its long ass
Skill training but it's player cooperation is top notch.  Buying ship
Is,prolly gonna be in adventure mode if it wasn't everyone
Would have top notch ships and player economy wouldn't matter

Offline Typhi

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2013, 07:43:27 pm »
We will see what the future brings, so many decisions to make ;) Everything is okay as long as its valanced and you don't have to okay a certain amount of time to grind your ammo. Ship buying would be nice, but I hope it will remain mostly cosmetic.

Offline Helmic

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2013, 07:53:38 pm »
EVE works because that's what EVE's always been.  You can't just apply its mechanics to another game and community and expect them to work.  Hell, its mechanics rarely work for itself, it's in a constant war with its own community.  Besides, GoI isn't balanced against an economy, how much time you spent grinding to get a ship isn't considered in combat balancing.  It'd suck if it did.

Offline MasX

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2013, 08:31:28 pm »
EVE works because that's what EVE's always been.  You can't just apply its mechanics to another game and community and expect them to work.  Hell, its mechanics rarely work for itself, it's in a constant war with its own community.  Besides, GoI isn't balanced against an economy, how much time you spent grinding to get a ship isn't considered in combat balancing.  It'd suck if it did.

Well how do you see adventure mode turning out

Offline Pickle

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2013, 04:46:44 am »
I hope ammo will stay infinite, it will cause imbalance and other sorts of stupid stuff. If you like buying ammo, I suggest playing Entropia Universe ;)

Shock horror, game makes players think ahead and plan tactics and strategy!

More "stupid stuff" please..
  • Weight penalties for weapons choices, ammunition load, fuel and cargo (you can tank or you can heavy haul, but you can't do both - balanced by heavy cargoes being less value-dense and less desirable and/or easy to pirate and/or less difficult to lose money on trading)
  • Finite fuel (will require a passive sailing mode that will nudge a player slowly towards a town, or a low fuel state engine power that chugs along slowly)
  • Finite ammunition (although a sop to the kiddies would be to allow infinite low calibre ammunition in the tradition of Tomb Raider pistol rounds)
  • Actively balanced economy using AI trader agents that props up weaker players to prevent them drowning in the game but rewards strategic play (the AI fiddles the economy to make it difficult for players to lose money unless they're really taking a gamble on expensive commodities or a large trading position, include random treasure commodities in the style of pepper/spices in Patrician that reward happening to be in the right place)

Offline Typhi

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2013, 04:58:32 am »
Great points Hubert P1ckle! :) I agree with all your points, except the finite ammunition one. It seems too much, but we will see how it will turn out :) I personally don't like going through endless menu's to buy (if you want to go as far as you would like) 6 types of different ammunitions ;) What could be done though, is that for every bullet you shoot you have to pay a certain price? So when you are back in a town you can press a simple button, restock and all your ammunition is there again ^^ (If you have finite you can easily restock, if you have infinite bullets you just pay a certain price/tax for the ammo used which is kinda like an artificial limit)

Offline Machiavelliest

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2013, 05:11:04 am »
I do not have the time to grind money to buy enough ammo/fuel to play adventure mode in a resonably competitive manner.  If the amount of money you have in Adventure Mode is going to determine your combat capability, people who casually play this game will not be able to compete because of limited loadout and ship options, and will be driven away.

I speak for myself and my opinions here, but I don't think I'm alone.  I will not pay for a game where I have to grind to get to really play the game.  There are certainly those who will, which is fine, but please don't turn this into some sort of reinvention of a traditional MMO.  It becomes a free-to-play, pay-to-win game with time being the currency of choice; grind-to-win.

postscript: I say I don't have the time because if I can afford all of these things playing casually, what is the impetus for people to play more seriously or to implement the finite system at all?

On the internal gameplay side, what happens with ammunition?  Does the whole crew use only the Captain's ammunition stockpile?  If not, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to just run AI crews who aren't subject to those limitations?  Again, without the resources, it's impossible to get a foothold to gain resources.  I sure as hell wouldn't want an ammoless gunner or engineer on my crew.  Without fuel, you can't fly, but if you can't afford fuel, how do you afford ammo or items so you can be a crew member on a ship?  It's a very prohibitive cycle.

This is a tl;dr, but I mention this because I have been a part of other game communities with this model.  The main playerbase grew frustrated and began leaving because they didn't care enough to grind up the resources.  The developers then introduced the 'pay-to-win' model to 'correct' the problem of the 'grind-to-win' model, which fully ruined the game.  I really hope to avoid seeing these frustrating meta-mechanics in this game.

Offline Pickle

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2013, 05:26:28 am »
Grind is bad, but having easy money/supplies drop as manna from heaven is unrewarding.  You fall into the inflationary treasure trap of 10GP being great at the start, but after the 100th drop you're wanting more.  So you end up with levelled loot and scaled rewards.  Now you've split the player base by playing time and created grind - whilst trying not to.

So you need a happy medium and you need to decide how you're going to reward players.  And there seems to be at least two groups of players, Captains and Crew.  If we're not all going to fly with AI crew there needs to be 3-4x more Crew than Captains.  How is that balanced? - what are the relative rewards and advancements in each role?

The GW model would appear to work quite well, instanced lobbies and Captains seeking crews.  Each player having up to four character slots they can choose to play and advance.  But there's inevitably some degree of grind, or there's no feeling of reward or advancement.  GW coped by restricting advancement to 20 levels, other games went silly and pushed level ceilings stratospheric and actively encouraged grind.

How weapons/ammunition will be selected in AM is an interesting topic.  As it stands in PvP the Captain makes the significant choices, but in AM the Gunner and Engineer are going to have to add something extra to the crew-ship dynamic.

Offline Typhi

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2013, 05:43:12 am »
So why not make it a cosmetic grind, and let the base game and essential stuff remain intact?

Offline MasX

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Re: Adventure mode wish list
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2013, 07:08:32 am »
What's the point of of adventure mode if there nothing to gain
If there's nothing to lose
What gonna make this any different then the goi we have now
What the point of even making this mode if everyone is gonna
Have access to everything from the beginning
With  unlimited resource what's stopping enemy factions that have
Larger player base from just camping.out side your town
With 15 galleon shooting lumber jacks and flaks on the first day of adventure mode