Author Topic: 2v3... How good are you?  (Read 16075 times)

Offline Richard LeMoon

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2v3... How good are you?
« on: May 02, 2015, 01:03:21 am »
I was pondering something just now, and was wondering if anyone had thoughts on it. Matchmaker breaks sometimes, obviously outmatching one team if numbers are too low. Your crew form of two ships gets tossed in a much less experienced lobby. The lobby empties, or the match is not so good.

So, what if there was an extra option in MM to place a crew-formed of 2 into a 2v3 lobby to try to even the balance. I think it could be fun, and would make the outcome much more uncertain. Thoughts? What new strategies or preferred builds would you use? Attack the weakest or strongest ship first? Lures and traps, or full assault?

Offline Tropo

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2015, 01:27:24 am »
sounds great 3 v4 could also work

would be happy to make a custom lobby and take the 3 ship out of the match for testing

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2015, 02:11:31 am »
I think 2v3 would be exceedingly difficult for the 2, provided all ships are participating in an engagement. 3v4 might be doable..

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2015, 02:14:03 am »
Meh, I do this all the time anyways. Half the time in 3v3s, one of the allies either rages early or has no clue how to use the map. The trick is not trying to give them a crash course in airship battle tactics but to use their uselessness to your advantage. So they leave early? Well that isn't a 2v3, thats a 2+ship filled with AI vs 3. Use the dead ship as a decoy and if the build isn't terrible, the shots will help your own. So fight near it.

Ally useless and flying around aimlessly? Lead the enemies to him. Let the fire be drawn so then you can benefit from the distraction.

There is various scenarios where you can exploit 2v3 matters. Often times the team with 3 gets cocky and makes more mistakes. They tend to think its an easy win for them. Done this in 2v2 too. If ship wouldn't respawn or they wouldn't chase, I'd focus on quick hit and run attacks. Focus on the trailer ship. Always the trailer simply because it takes too long for the lead ship to react and turn around. You can usually score a little perma before you have to run.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2015, 09:44:26 am »
that being said. I'm not new to 2 v 1.

No AI is. I just had a 2 v 1 against overwatch and their scrub meta pyra.

Vs my sniper pyra Pyra that had 1 AI as reliable crew. And two noobs who I had to tell every thing on every single step (kinda put a handicap on my concentration on piloting which I really needed to do).

And one scrub fish that was never around to even act as a meat shield.


That being said 2 v 1 ended with 3-5 to overwatch because the third kill was me trying to kill overwatch. But they eventually wore me down long enough for his ally to get a few lucky mortars in right after I finished off overwatch ship and it just hull broke me with a gat before its death.


With 2 ships vs 3? Where 2 thirds is bigger than 1 half in terms of amount of firepower.

It's highly possible given the stated system that I would win those circumstances.





The question is though, what are the parameters for allowing such an inherently unfair lobby? Underdog?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2015, 09:49:24 am by Maximillian Jazzhand »

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2015, 10:32:56 am »
The first goal of this is to help MM work better. My first point was the lobby dying as soon as people see crews of 45s. a 2v3 would change the mindset of the match from "Well, I don't want to get stomped." to "All right, let's take on the big guys." Since it is an option, the higher MMR team is choosing to do it or not, so no complaints there. I am sure some teams would rather go against three lower MMR ships with just their two than get a random third ship.


This is how I would see it working. Example given is 2v3. Another option would be available for 3v4. No 1v2.

1. Crew form with 2 ships.

2. Select "2v3"  as an tickbox option like the other modes (or don't, see 4), Being on the 2v side would only be available to substantially high level players. I guess that would make this end game stuff.

3. Start MM. Get in a lobby. If you did not check "2v3" as an option and wait time is getting long, go to 4.

4. MM can't find an even match, but sees a possible 2v3. A pop-up comes up saying something like "It is taking longer than expected to find a balanced match. There is a 2v3 available. Include this in your search?"

5. Click yes and go to that match.

6. Optional feature. Instead of asking to include in the search, it could ask "Preview this match?" which would open up a new screen that would show you what the lobby would look like, and ask if you want to join. This might be the better option, since you would be placing your team at a one ship disadvantage.



Ingame tactics would be interesting. I see people have already dealt with situations like this, so it is not a new concept.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2015, 07:24:57 pm »
you're emailing muse. I can't be bothered.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2015, 01:41:16 pm »
Imagine how the newbies on the 3 team would feel after you wipe the floor with them. The game would essentially be telling them that they suck so bad they can't win even if they have a numerical advantage.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2015, 05:28:45 pm »
Imagine how the newbies on the 3 team would feel after you wipe the floor with them. The game would essentially be telling them that they suck so bad they can't win even if they have a numerical advantage.

Your point? I do this all the time with all AI crews. Custom game, recruit from MM, then a friend and I just sit there with ready buttons clicked and AI crew. AI has it's limits tho. But other captains who aren't competitive players tend to get cocky and make mistakes. I try to fly in ways which adjusts to the AI weakness. Hence I leave even smaller room open for them to exploit. But I have had a few tense matches. Usually the ones where they talk to one another and don't split up tend to be the ones where they actually get a point or two. Sometimes it ends 5-4. The real inexperienced ones get total tunnel vision and chase a lot. Makes it easy to get them alone after my ally leaves their ally in a tar cloud. Then just rip em up.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2015, 05:34:44 pm »
Gilder it is your job to tell newbies that they suck not Muse's. Muse's job is to make anyone who plays the game feel awesome enough to convince their friends to buy a copy. Creating a mode where newbies are given an obvious advantage before getting fed to expert players would work against that goal.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2015, 05:58:58 pm »
No its my job to show them they can get better. I'm just not going to sit there and go easy on them. Build up self esteem little by little then crush them? Nah, then they know you were going easy on them and not seeing them as worthy foes. Either a new player sees it and rage quits or they see it and decide to try out new things. If they rage quit then they rage quit. Fewer rage quitters in GOIO the better. They can go back to CoD. This is why Muse would never invite me to a youtuber showcase thing. If they did, they'd have to force me to fly ships I hate. Like Mobulas or Spires.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2015, 07:00:53 pm »
Imagine how the newbies on the 3 team would feel after you wipe the floor with them. The game would essentially be telling them that they suck so bad they can't win even if they have a numerical advantage.

I think you missed the second half of my original post. MM would actively look for a match it thinks is even, not dump your experts on a bunch of novices. I would specifically remove novice pilots from the 2v3 queue.

But, let's make it interesting. If it can't find an even 2v3, see if it can find a 2v4. Are you that good?

Offline Supimpa

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2015, 09:41:45 am »
I think it's more a matter of "how bad they are" instead of "how good you are". There is a point where it doesn't matter how good you are, there are some disavantages that simply cannot be overcome by pure skill, specially in GoIo where you rely heavily on your crew first and then your team mates.

If they are -that- bad, even 1v4+ can be achieved.

Offline Crafeksterty

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2015, 10:03:37 am »
What supimpa said

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: 2v3... How good are you?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2015, 12:06:01 pm »
That is going to happen in any match, 2v2 or 1v8. Sometimes you just get bad matches. This would be about trying to find a more even match in the case of preformed high-skilled teams. Crewform a competition clan in 2 ships, and you will rarely find an even 2v2 MM lobby. 2v3? More likely. 2v4? Pretty good chance. It is all about statistics.