Author Topic: Novice tools.  (Read 16611 times)

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Novice tools.
« on: May 01, 2015, 01:18:06 am »
The idea here is to think of tools that will help novices learn the game. They would be very useful until you learn how to play without them. The rangefinder is obviously one of these tools.

The thought that started this was the fact that most new pilots don't know gun arcs, which is key to this game. So, my thought was to have a tool that would show the pilot what is in range and arc of guns.

Pilot tool: Quadrant - Has a visible trail/arc/cone/highlight/something that would indicate where a gun can shoot and if something is there that it can hit. Assassins' Creed came to mind. A ship in range of a gun could be highlighted as well.



Any other thoughts on tools to train?

Offline Hoja Lateralus

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2015, 06:44:21 am »
Make it an option in practice mode. Make practice mode a thing.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2015, 10:11:54 am »
Well with co-op made. They developed AI opponents.

So possibly testing stuff like that with actual AI ships trying to actively kill you might be ideal to simulate actual combat.

As for this tool thing?Bit redundant. A bit of homework and some intelligence is enough.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2015, 12:18:24 pm »
Well with co-op made. They developed AI opponents.

So possibly testing stuff like that with actual AI ships trying to actively kill you might be ideal to simulate actual combat.

Valid and already thought of. But that is a completely different subject.

As for this tool thing?Bit redundant. A bit of homework and some intelligence is enough.

I think you do not understand the definitions of redundant. Something is redundant when there is already something that does a similar or exact thing, rendering the second thing uneeded. What in the game, exactly, shows a pilot precisely where and how far the guns will shoot in a simple, easy to understand manner? A bit of homework? Are you serious? People play games to have fun, not do in depth research on the exact arcs and ranges of all the guns, spending hours in practice to test out each gun (which is what I did, and this tool would have been and still would be an awesome aid).

As it is, I jump around o the ship to show people where the guns can shoot "From where I am standing now to over here, then below the railling and up by the flag..." OR "Go into practice and spawn a bunch of balloons at the four corners of the arc, then back to the helm and see where they are. Do this with ALL THE GUNS." This tool would be a simple line. "Use the Quadrant and see where your guns can shoot."

So, NO, it is not redundant in any way, shape, or form. It is a flat out upgrade and solution to a huge problem. If there was a practice tutorial mode that did the same thing, THEN it would be redundant.

Go back to your end game stuff, and stop telling other people how to best introduce people to the game. We already know your opinion of new players and how they need to earn the privilege of playing with you by sweat, research, and hard work. If they don't survive that, they should not be in the game. You are wrong, and I am not interested in seeing it any more.


Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2015, 04:25:15 pm »
Well with co-op made. They developed AI opponents.

So possibly testing stuff like that with actual AI ships trying to actively kill you might be ideal to simulate actual combat.

Valid and already thought of. But that is a completely different subject.

As for this tool thing?Bit redundant. A bit of homework and some intelligence is enough.

I think you do not understand the definitions of redundant. Something is redundant when there is already something that does a similar or exact thing, rendering the second thing uneeded. What in the game, exactly, shows a pilot precisely where and how far the guns will shoot in a simple, easy to understand manner?

eyes and spots.

Offline DJ Logicalia

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2015, 04:45:22 pm »
Well with co-op made. They developed AI opponents.

So possibly testing stuff like that with actual AI ships trying to actively kill you might be ideal to simulate actual combat.

Valid and already thought of. But that is a completely different subject.

As for this tool thing?Bit redundant. A bit of homework and some intelligence is enough.

I think you do not understand the definitions of redundant. Something is redundant when there is already something that does a similar or exact thing, rendering the second thing uneeded. What in the game, exactly, shows a pilot precisely where and how far the guns will shoot in a simple, easy to understand manner?

eyes and spots.
You ignored an impressive bit of Richard's argument. Good on ya, mate. Excellent reading comprehension skills

Offline Tropo

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2015, 08:44:07 pm »
i love the idea of making the game easier for new players and once there use the tool a bit they get a good idea of the game and not have to spend all the time that player like me, richard and other great players have spent in the practice mode checking gun arks

may even improve the skills of player around them making possible a more balance matches

why would i want a more balance match we'll its not really that fun winning all the time 5-0 would rather 4-5 lose

this tool would take a captain slot so it wouldn't not be used too often and would be self balancing

i can't help to think about all the lovely new player we may have lots by making this game over complex for starting player's

any thing that could improve retention and remove the stigma of the elitists and close off community that guns of Icarus could often appear to be

would be a great  addition to the game

thanks richard for another great idea stolen from another game (could also use reticle that change colour)


Offline -Anakin-

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2015, 06:22:32 am »
How about instead of a tool, having gun arcs displayed on the ship selection screen? Perhaps a top down view with arcs and overlaps illustrated in the corner.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2015, 10:39:46 am »
That should be default when building a ship, really, with the option to turn off. Along with all the other build screen UI. It would help new players a lot when choosing guns.

It brings this old image of mine to mind.



It would not help much while ingame, though. Unless... hmmm.... What if the Quadrant showed up like that with the map open?

Made a quick, sloppy image. This would be a junker with a merc on front, random side guns. The white lines show where each gun is aiming. Maybe leave the lines out if no one is on the gun. I would seriously love to be able to tell new pilots "Equip your Quadrant and check your map to see if they are in arc/range."

« Last Edit: May 02, 2015, 11:00:02 am by Richard LeMoon »

Offline -Anakin-

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2015, 03:32:20 pm »

It would not help much while ingame, though. Unless... hmmm.... What if the Quadrant showed up like that with the map open?


I feel like actually learning to arc/range guns in game should still be something pilots have to learn the old fashioned way. As long as they've used the previously discussed ship builder correctly, they'll know their guns arc together and how they should angle the ship to get them shots. As long as it's on the ship building screen, it'll cause novice pilots to actually think about it and that's all they need.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2015, 04:08:21 pm »
I am not sure why you would think that. I have literally hours, perhaps even days of ingame aggravation time due to people not knowing arcs. I honestly don't care how they learn them, as long as I don't have to constantly teach the same thing over and over.

Seeing a ship from the outside and where it can shoot, then translating that to actually being on the ship is not as easy as that. Even the on-map arcs would not.

The goal of novice tools should be this: Teach the basics of the game as quickly as possible in an easy, unobtrusive manner, without making it overly obvious that they are being taught. The Quadrant would do just that. It would be seen as an awesome tool that is better than the spyglass for keeping track of enemies. This does five things.

1. Gets the spyglass out of the pilot's hands from the start.

2. Teaches pilots to use a map more often, even without the tool.

3. Teaches gun arcs.

4. Teaches positional awareness.

5. Teaches crew awareness (via the white aiming line).

Those five things are worth Jeeves weight in gold.

Offline Carn

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2015, 04:15:25 pm »
I think something like that would be good, I get irritated when a new pilot can't keep the main gun on the goldfish pointed at the enemy

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2015, 07:13:46 pm »
I think something like that would be good, I get irritated when a new pilot can't keep the main gun on the goldfish pointed at the enemy

Depending on the situation it can get risky to do that.  Otherwise, ffs, POINT THE FRONT OF THE SHIP AT THE GUY SHOOTING AT YOU.

Offline Carn

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2015, 07:37:48 pm »
I get that, but when they don't point any of the guns at the enemy? And it feels like half of the engagement your on the wrong end of a chase? I dunno, I've been stuck with a lot of noob pilots lately.

Offline Xylo Wenchbane

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Re: Novice tools.
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2015, 07:53:50 am »
Sounds cool, But that definitely should be only applicable to novice status players. Once you 'pass' novice the assist turns off and you should know most of the gun arcs and range by that point. There's still plenty of effects to learn from ammo types and the ships speed/movement after the novices graduate and I guess they come with time too.