What is keeping novices in novice?

[MidnightWonko]

Make novice last X matches.

Simple.  Elegant.  I like it.

[Arturo Sanchez]

I'd like to mention the other day I had a level 4 buff engineer (by his own choice because I was expecting to loose the match and was not worried by what my pubs took into game.)
Buffed engines, buffed hull, he asked on voice chat "How long does it last if I don't finish the buff?" Me: "Until component is destroyed or match assuming we don't die...."

He pre-buffed once we killed enemy fish!
Everything buffed and pre-buffed!

Whole low level.crew and we accumulated 4 kills, 2 deaths and a lost round....

Couldn't have explained how damn good they were...
They unfortunately hit a different time zone to me so I rarely see them...

My point is, not every new player is unable to cope with everything...

(However it is a minority which learn -that- fast..)

(not likely a Smurf account, he still.had a range finder)

This is not a hard game. Shouldnt be surprised that people learn it fast.
But alas, as evident with reality most people are thick as bricks and need their hand held.

And I have no patience to teach a person with no ability to learn when the information is given. It's exactly why the AI clan is very exclusive when it comes to inviting noobs. And I understand why they eventually leave the game as their peers are just a pathetic joke in comparison.

Novices, need to stay in novice. Otherwise the feature is pointless. But most importantly. A novice must learn from the mode before graduating. Graduating as a single specialist class teaches NOTHING. A graduate should learn to be an all rounder.


e.g. graduated as a pilot? congrats you are an average pilot and nothing else. Now you gotta get through the advanced mode and learn two other classes under much harsher conditions.

[Imagine]

Once again I must stress this point, locking novices into novice makes new people not be able to play with friends who have already passed the novice mark, and it's been Muse's long standing mantra to not let something like that happen (and before it comes up, from what I've seen, yes, it happens quite often).

Let's not kid ourselves here, this thread isn't about helping new people get better before they get into higher level games. This is basically a circlejerk about how much x person hates new people on their crew for whatever reason. Suck it up and move on.

[Lanliss]

I am fine with novices being locked in novice, as they do need to learn the game. To address your issue Imagine I have recommended they be able to get invited to advanced matches, thus allowing them to play with their friends. I do not believe there should be any penalties on playing in adcanced matches, even though a lot of people seem to lean towards the "punish novices for being novice" ideas. I just believe that there should be something to keep them in the classroom until they show they have learned enough to be of actual use in a real game. Otherwise they might as well go to the Guns equivalent of Macdonald's.

[Caprontos]

Once again I must stress this point, locking novices into novice makes new people not be able to play with friends who have already passed the novice mark, and it's been Muse's long standing mantra to not let something like that happen (and before it comes up, from what I've seen, yes, it happens quite often).

Let's not kid ourselves here, this thread isn't about helping new people get better before they get into higher level games. This is basically a circlejerk about how much x person hates new people on their crew for whatever reason. Suck it up and move on.

Actually it doesn't have to lock them out at all because we have plenty of mechanics in game to let them play with friends that isn't MM. In the Fireside chat the devs agreed they should possibly do more to improve the situation. So I think its you who is out of touch on this issue. (watch around 20min mark for this weeks FSC, and 37min mark).

I don't hate new people or their crews or playing with them(my stranded for good new player is pretty low), I do find it unfun to just stomp them because MM can't do its job... (Granted I thinks its more a population issue then MM, I don't hate MM personally).

I do feel they aren't learning enough before they are being mixed in causing unnecessary issues.. That could be avoided if they learned first. If the game isn't teaching them the basics before mixing them in, then the game isn't doing a good job introducing them to basic concepts.

Some people are, I agree, a bit overly abusive toward new people.. and expect people to play better then they themselves most likely play.. If they lose its automatically because you suck.. - but they are minority from what I've seen.

[Arturo Sanchez]

I am fine with novices being locked in novice, as they do need to learn the game. To address your issue Imagine I have recommended they be able to get invited to advanced matches, thus allowing them to play with their friends. I do not believe there should be any penalties on playing in adcanced matches, even though a lot of people seem to lean towards the "punish novices for being novice" ideas. I just believe that there should be something to keep them in the classroom until they show they have learned enough to be of actual use in a real game. Otherwise they might as well go to the Guns equivalent of Macdonald's.

I JUST SUGGESTED THAT ON THE FIRST PAGE!

[DJ Logicalia]

    I'm really feeling an "Us vs. Them" mentality here. The whole

It's exactly why the AI clan is very exclusive when it comes to inviting noobs.

idea is very troubling to me as an attitude. Put simply, with out new people coming in, this game dies, and I don't want this game to die. The Bards add novices and low level players all the time because our officers see the potential in people to not only be cool cats, but to also someday be good at this game.

    Compared to a lot, this game is very complicated and I don't fault people for not understanding it right away like it seems some are. I have a ton of patience with new people and really only get upset when they are actively ignoring me or telling me I'm wrong. Even then, I explain the them why I'm not wrong and why pipe wrench mallet is a terrible combo.

TL;DR Stop discriminating against people based on level or match total. Stop creating false barriers between novices and "vets" (which is a term I hate by the way). We're all playing this game together and we might as well try and make it a good experience for everyone

[Ayetach]

Stop discriminating against people based on level or match total. Stop creating false barriers between novices and "vets" (which is a term I hate by the way). We're all playing this game together and we might as well try and make it a good experience for everyone

I couldn't agree more with this. Although realistically its easy for all of us even the cool-headed to lose ourselves to these stats from time to time. However, the bottom line is that levels mean little when it comes to how well each players personality is to meshing in a teamwork environment.

[BlackenedPies]

If you communicate well you'll find the vast majority of novices to be perfectly acceptable and pleasant crews. If you don't communicate then expect nothing and don't blame them. If they screw up and you die, so what. Explain the mistake and move on. No one wants an unpleasant or disrespectful captain.  Expect them to suck and you'll receive as much.

There is a problem with newer players in advanced matches, like readying up with any crew config. This is a separate issue and unrelated to novices with experienced captains. They're not "thick as bricks", they're just new players to wanting to have fun. Sticking them full time on repairs isn't exactly fun.

Guns of Icarus is a good platform for giving guidance and teaching new players. Treating them like they're dumb with "no ability to learn" is a bad experience to any player who's new to a game. A captain who's quiet until you screw up is disheartening. If you go in with a good attitude just to have fun then your crew will too.

[MidnightWonko]

How many players are in this multiplayer game?  Like 400 max and 80 min, with a one-time spike of 800 during a sale?  Do any of you expect that to last forever?  When there's few players online, novices will either have wickedly long queue times or be placed in matches with far-more experienced players.  Which do you guys seriously consider the lesser of the two evils?  Separating the two forcefully only serves to divide an already tiny community.  If newbies are only trickling in and can't play any matches because there aren't any other newbies, the community will perish.

To that end, I asset that playing in novice matches should be a newbie's PREROGATIVE.  Not their REQUIREMENT.

Also, there's more to learn faster in regular matches, and some people just click that way; those are the people who will be frustrated by the empty grinding forced upon them by novices before they can play the fun part of the game.  Must they seriously be forbidden?  I thought Guns of Icarus was a game.  Not a job!

[Lanliss]

I think that if these kinds of things were implemented it would lead to more remaining after a sale. These measures would 1) keep all the new players in one place, so there would be more people for MM to pick from when making novice games. 2) it would make the game more approachable for new players, as they would not have to worry about running into a pro team when they know basically nothing. I understand that some people only really learn in real games, but unfortunately there is not an answer to very problem, or not yet anyway. I understand that you want to keep everyone in a position where they can play together, but some people just do not want that.

 I know it might seem a bit preachy, since I have posted a couple of my own solutions to the problem, but I am all for everyone staying in the same area, maybe even removing novice all together, as long as there is a way to ensure that they actually learn how to be a useful, functioning crew member. Unfortunately, the current tutorial does not help at all in that respect, only showing the absolute bare basics. If the tutorial could be more in depth and informative, without forcing a new player to go through every individual scenario out Goethe hundreds of possible real battle situations, that would be great. But so far there is no solid solution.

[Imagine]

Not that it matters much, but steam sale weeks generally spike up to 1-2K.

Player retention has always been a problem, but let's face it; most gamers pick up something to play for a few days, and then move onto something else even if they enjoyed it. There are very few multiplayer only team games that are able to sustain giant numbers constantly.

[Lanliss]

Luckily, despite losing all of the new players after a sale, all the old ones stay on. All of the vets have stuck with this game, and a few new players stick around after each sale. Just a shame that more don't stay and become part of the community.

[Kamoba]

Luckily, despite losing all of the new players after a sale, all the old ones stay on. All of the vets have stuck with this game, and a few new players stick around after each sale. Just a shame that more don't stay and become part of the community.

And this is the most used paragraph after every sale, and it is also said a lot in reviews...

Niche market, but I know Howard is working his butt off on gearing the game towards a new target audience, so we have the influx of steam punkers to look forward to. 

[Lanliss]

Surprised all the steam punkers are not here already. LOOK AT ALL THE GEARS THIS GAME HAS!!!

Also, on a side note, does anyone happen to know a way I can get updates automatically on here? I have spent most of my time since I got on these forums checking and rechecking for new things, and I wish to be freed from this curse without actually cutting myself off from the forums. I know there must be something, but I have never been on forums before this, so I have no idea. If you know of either an iOS app, or a Kindle fire app, that would be very useful, as I am always within arms reach of a mobile device.