Author Topic: Remove Flamethrower  (Read 88125 times)

Offline DJ Logicalia

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2015, 11:42:00 am »

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2015, 12:17:31 pm »
Maybe it is time to revisit a pilot tool idea I had for dealing with lots of fire. With some thought and tinkering, I am sure a Halon system could be just the thing for newer crews facing fire onslaughts. After they learn how to deal with fire normally, the tool becomes redundant and they stop using it. Fire suppression training wheels, so to speak.

Offline nanoduckling

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2015, 12:35:50 pm »
The flamer is a weapon best paired with something that disrupts chem cycles. As Sammy and Patched point out, it is a weapon that starts out seeming unbalanced because without chemspray applied to vital components before the engagement starts you are in deep crap. With it a flame thrower alone is basically useless. Pair it with something that disrupts chem cycles (carronade or gatling say) and it is a effective, reasonably well balanced weapon that tips longer engagements in your favour.

I'm sorry you were paired against very experienced crews. This is likely a result of MM determining from the novice games that you played in that you are pretty good, giving you a high win rate. There aren't many experienced players in the MM queue at any given time, so they are often just paired off against whatever the matchmaker thinks are the next best players available. On the plus side you can be proud that is you, on the down side 1000+ matches experience is hard to overcome even with great twitch reflexes and a sharp mind.

Once out of novice games all players have access to all the same ships and tools. This is not a level thing, there is just a tactic (flame spam) which enemies are exploiting to beat you. Once you know how to counter it (chem cycles), it will be less of a problem. Of course then you will find new tactics you will have to counter (snipe heavy builds, meta builds, blending, and on and on), this game is absurdly deep. If you want someone to go over the basics of chem cycles with you and your crew feel at liberty to contact me in game. The basics are pretty simple. A word of advice though, always, always, always make sure you have at least one engineer with chemspray unless there is a reason you wont need it (instagib mobulas or spires frequently run chem spray free). Experienced pilots check the enemy load-outs and if you do not have any chemspray they are going to include something with fire damage, likely a flame thrower, possible more than one. Simply having your engineers bring chemspray will reduce the amount of fire spam you encounter, even if you are using it sub-optimally.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2015, 06:16:50 pm »
So yeah, like everyone has said there will be no attempt to balance the flame. Fire extinguishers are completely useless against constant fire no matter how good your engineers are. Their only use is prolonging your death.
Unless you're using a gun that absolutely needs a gunner (lumberjack and mine launcher), have 3 engineers with chem spray. Chem spray after every single reload. If you miss a chem you lose. The good news is that with proper chem their flame is useless giving you a precious advantage to make something happen.

Not having a gunner gives you a huge advantage because buff engineers are superior on nearly all weapons with their ability to buff guns and components (buff and chem every reload). The standard buff loadout is wrench buff chem. Bring 3 chem sprays and a buff and wreck those bullies.

Call it what you want, but when I used to always use flames I was bullying pubs. I used to fly a double flame squid (43 win streak with all AI) and made many rage quit. Having nearly the whole enemy team leave was a common occurrence. Many likely never came back. It's so freaking easy why wouldn't you use it against pubs?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 06:24:51 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Replaceable

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2015, 07:25:11 pm »
Been thinking today actually, and I agree with Pies. There should be some middle ground.
Not a binary system of death and fire or perfectly okay. It's a bit weird. 

Offline Jaraxlle

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2015, 05:08:55 pm »
I have read the arguments here and on the steam community forums.  I don't think I come across very clear.  So please read this carefully:

The Flamethrower sucks.  It changes the combat in the game for the worse.  The game is better off without it.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2015, 05:17:50 pm »
I believe The Dude said it best:

Offline Imagine

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2015, 05:42:02 pm »
I have read the arguments here and on the steam community forums.  I don't think I come across very clear.  So please read this carefully:

The Flamethrower sucks.  It changes the combat in the game for the worse.  The game is better off without it.
I have read your argument here. I don't think we've come across very clear. So please read this carefully:

No.

Offline David Dire

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2015, 05:49:36 pm »
I don't think the flamethrower is a fun weapon either. To shoot or get shot by.

Pff, you just don't see it's hidden Glory.

Oh, by the way everyone, this has already been discussed on the Steam Forums.

Offline DJ Logicalia

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2015, 06:03:57 pm »
The flamer has gone through many forms of nerfing and in it's current state (and I say this as an engineer) it's fine. Once you understand the game, it's very easy to counter. And it's 2 words

Chem Spray

In the early game, you learn to spray certain components before you come into contact with an enemy ship that you know has flamers or as you come into contact with that ship. You suffer some fires, but you can recover from them with any semblance of basic engineering.  Eventually, you're able to keep a ship sprayed for, basically, the entire game. It's not OP, and it's a very useful weapon I would be sad to see go

Offline Lanliss

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2015, 06:07:43 pm »


Pff, you just don't see it's hidden Glory.

Oh, by the way everyone, this has already been discussed on the Steam Forums.
[/quote]

LOL, Steam forums are for skrubz. Use real forums or B UbrSkurb.


(I am sorry, I just couldn't resist.)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 06:10:01 pm by Lanliss »

Offline David Dire

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2015, 06:08:29 pm »


Pff, you just don't see it's hidden Glory.

Oh, by the way everyone, this has already been discussed on the Steam Forums.
[/quote]

LOL, Steam forums are for skrubz. Use real forums or B UbrSkurb.
[/quote]

I do use these forums more. However, I'm just pointing out how this argument is useless as it's already been won.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2015, 06:13:46 pm »
There are Steam forums?

Offline Lanliss

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2015, 06:14:39 pm »
There are Steam forums?

Exactly. That is why these are the real forums.

Offline David Dire

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Re: Remove Flamethrower
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2015, 06:15:34 pm »
There are Steam forums?

They're titled "Discussions". but you can immediately see they're forums.