Author Topic: Laundry List of Small balance tweaks - I'd love your opinion  (Read 5218 times)

Offline Zirilfer

  • Member
  • Salutes: 12
    • [◉‿◉]
    • 15 
    • 34
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Laundry List of Small balance tweaks - I'd love your opinion
« on: February 02, 2015, 01:37:14 am »
Hey everyone, thanks for taking the time to read this. I've been playing this game for quite some time now and I've come up with a few ideas on mild balance tweaks.

The 2 main goals of these tweaks are
1. Support more diversity in tactics without drastically buffing or nerfing any existing ones
2. Not to add much development time to implementing these, all of these suggestions can be done without any additional assets

Rebalance Hflak Primary to Secondary Damage Ratio
As it stands currently, The Hflak delivers 45% of it's damage regardless of arming, and then the additional 55% after arming. I'd like to see this go up to more around the 60/40 ratio for 2 reasons
1. Give Hflak a little more close range power, buffing (but still not making practical) double flak galleons and flakfishes
2. Those familiar with damage mechanics know that if you break a part, the remaining damage from the stage that broke it (Primary or secondary) is not transferred to the hull. I've seen a few premature Hflak shots result in the armor breaking, but no permahull damage, if the Primary damage was a bit higher, the chance of secondary doing an extra scratch would increase.

Increase the power of Explosive damage on balloons
The recent changes to the banshee led to a new tactic I rather like, shooting the balloon as I wait for armor to drop, this behavior on all explosive weapons would be nice. My current testing shows that constant buffed greased banshee fire (from 1 banshee) is unable to break a fully watched and chemed balloon ever, changing the modifier to the point where buffed banshee can barely break balloon and non-buffed still can't feels like a good starting point. This would open up cool builds like carro mortar as well.

Increase drogue chutes power and deactivation time
Blenders are fun, but everytime I see one I get incredibly nervous about going mobula, junker or galleon, regardless of the loadout I have. The main issue I have is that while the balloons on galleons and junkers are very close to the pilot, I only have a 2s cooldown where I can keep drogue chute and help repair, if this was increased to around 6-8 seconds, as well as perhaps a 30% slower drogue chute descent, I feel tanking balloon could have utility, though not to the point of making the blending strategy less effective or less popular.

Increase impact bumper effectiveness
Just like, 10-20% more resistance than it has, enough to make it worth the slot it's filling.

Rework fire extinguisher
I suggest re balancing the fire extinguisher to 2s cooldown, 5s immunity, and 9 fire stacks removed. This would help the game in 3 ways.
1. Make fire less powerful against newer players and AI, as they can babysit parts quicker and less costly than previously
2. Allow the fire extinguisher to have use in optimal chem runs, instead of [mallet, mallet, spanner, chem again,] the option of [mallet, mallet, fire extinguisher, chem again] which may have limited use against flamer-flare heavy builds
3. It buffs the flare slightly, it'll still suck, but it'll suck better.

Move front and rear squid gun arcs inward (Towards the right side) 10 degrees
Almost all squids are disable heavy, just 10 degrees would open the squid up to the world of  gat-mortars and hades-flaks (Though not with the range and simplicity of them being side by side like a pyra), while still keeping any mercury+anything shenanigans at bay, giving the squid a much needed buff.

And that concludes my balance suggestions, I'd really like to know what everyone thinks about this, feel free to critique or compliment as you see fit.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 01:40:13 am by Zirilfer »

Offline GeoRmr

  • Member
  • Salutes: 178
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 1
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Storm Ryders
Re: Laundry List of Small balance tweaks - I'd love your opinion
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2015, 07:42:04 am »


I've seen a few premature Hflak shots result in the armor breaking, but no permahull damage, if the Primary damage was a bit higher, the chance of secondary doing an extra scratch would increase.


This doesn't quite work exactly as you think, and having a shift of balance to the primary damage actually affects this scenario in quite a complex way. Both the primary and secondary damage of the heavy flak are explosive, they have the same damage modifiers against armour. This means that shifting the balance of primary and secondary damage makes no difference when hitting armour that has too much health to break. Having more primary damage does not increase the chance of armour break because the secondary damage is still applied with the same modifiers. If the armour does break with less health than the damage done by the primary damage the rest of that primary damage is negated, and then the secondary damage is applied to the hull, meaning the shot does less damage overall than one that has more secondary damage in the balance. However, if the armour breaks with more health than the primary damage then the secondary damage is required to break the armour and no damage is done to the hull.

tl;dr
The opposite is also true. Having a low primary damage to secondary damage ratio can also be seen as more effective because until the armour is low enough to break, the shot does the same amount of damage; once the armour does break, less primary damage is available to be negated as component destruction and more damage is delivered to the ship (hull damage).

A 50:50 ratio of primary to secondary damage can be considered the most effective as both scenarios are equally likely.

But, yes please! I would like the heavy flak to be slightly more effective inside arming time.
Can I also suggest a straight up damage buff to the heavy flak (both primary and secondary)? Goldfish should die to it faster imho.

Quote

Increase the power of Explosive damage on balloons


I don't like this suggestion as it reduces the necessity and interest gained in having specialised weapon rolls, also balloon popping is already extremely effective and does not need a buff by having more weapons that can assist it. Alternatively increase the ignition chance of explosive weapons?

Quote

Increase drogue chutes power and deactivation time


Yes please, also click to activate and animated parachute effect?

Quote

Increase impact bumper effectiveness
Just like, 10-20% more resistance than it has, enough to make it worth the slot it's filling.


Yes please.

Quote

Rework fire extinguisher
I suggest re balancing the fire extinguisher to 2s cooldown, 5s immunity, and 9 fire stacks removed. This would help the game in 3 ways.
1. Make fire less powerful against newer players and AI, as they can babysit parts quicker and less costly than previously
2. Allow the fire extinguisher to have use in optimal chem runs, instead of [mallet, mallet, spanner, chem again,] the option of [mallet, mallet, fire extinguisher, chem again] which may have limited use against flamer-flare heavy builds
3. It buffs the flare slightly, it'll still suck, but it'll suck better.


2s cd, 5s imu, keep the total stack removal pls.

Quote

Move front and rear squid gun arcs inward (Towards the right side) 10 degrees


Yes please.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 07:48:29 am by GeoRmr »

Offline Crafeksterty

  • Member
  • Salutes: 73
    • [GwTh]
    • 17 
    • 28
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Laundry List of Small balance tweaks - I'd love your opinion
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2015, 12:17:45 pm »
Quote
Rebalance Hflak Primary to Secondary Damage Ratio

Not really needed, i can understand why but it really wont change too much. As it stands the weapon has been this super explosive weapon for a while now and i dont really know how we ca rebalance the Hflak to better fit on goldfishes because of how specific the gun is. Other than that, this balance wont do much and isnt needed.

Quote
Increase the power of Explosive damage on balloons

Rather not, some ships are balanced in the sense that you need to destroy their baloon first before you do any damage, give it any more power to it will make those ships easier to kill (Junker, Galleon). Which isnt needed. If you really want to abuse destroying baloon, i suggest builds that focus on destroying the baloon in order to start destroying the hull.
Spire: Hades + Lumberjack + 2 Light flaks all aiming at the baloon will keep a baloon down and destroy armor. Hades helps lumby to destroy baloon, lumby helps hades to destroy armor. while 2 light flaks is for the sake of momentum and pressure as both guns are pretty strong alone. Just showcasing that the hull can be penetrated thru the destruction of baloon and making explosive better on baloons would make this less relevant or too destructive.

Quote
Increase drogue chutes power and deactivation time

I agree! we need more pilot tools that make you overlap what to take with you. That pheonix claw sits all might on its throne, we need more of something else to be just as mighty!

Quote
Increase impact bumper effectiveness

YES!!! But then also maybe... If we buff BOTH Drogue chute and Impact bumpers, hitting the ground because of no baloon may be an indestructable combo. But maybe we need that combo, besides it takes up 2 pilot tool slots so im still FOR having a big buff for impact and drogue chute.

Quote
Rework fire extinguisher

Yes please, but not exactly how you said, i rather have 1 second cd, 3s immunity with current stats. Because youl want to use the fire extinguisher then repair and still have time to assess for something else.

Quote
Move front and rear squid gun arcs inward (Towards the right side) 10 degrees

No, well... maybe. It kinda offers ease of fire power to squid users which it may need but it will get a meneuverability buff soon so i dont think making its firepower more effective is a going to be a good answer.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 12:19:46 pm by Crafeksterty »

Offline DJ Logicalia

  • Member
  • Salutes: 191
    • [♫]
    • 35 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Laundry List of Small balance tweaks - I'd love your opinion
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2015, 01:20:08 pm »
Aside from explosive balloon damage, I think this is a really great list

+1

Offline michael.hauda

  • Member
  • Salutes: 5
    • [MisF]
    • 36 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Laundry List of Small balance tweaks - I'd love your opinion
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2015, 08:18:37 am »
Um, I'm going to go against the general opinion here. how many times has the heavy flak not killed something fast enough? newer players already can't use it, moderately experienced players can sort of, the only people you're helping are the people who land 80% of shots and they don't need the help.

I'll agree to not making explosive more effective against balloons, which leads me to my third point..

Flechette damage of heavy carronade needs a lowering (not nerfing) the light one is fine, maybe give more shatter damages to the heavy one too balance out the decrease.

Lowering fire extinguisher cool down would be great, 2 or 1 second preferably, but keep the full removal please

And yes, please raise the effectiveness of bumpers to at least relatively effective, now its more worth it to burn kero for  a second so you don't get thrown around than it is to use bumpers..

No to the squid suggestion, it isn't needed at the moment and there is supposed to be a buff to its maneuvering right?