Author Topic: Experience Gains - Post MM.  (Read 5536 times)

Offline Hilary Briss

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2015, 08:14:54 am »
Have shipped out with new crew in pubs only for them to deliberately destroy the Ship engines balloons you name it all in the Quest of achievement hunting. Which makes my loss count go up and not get the XP that should have been given. Why are there some players with only 600 matches + that can have a level 35 engineer a level 20 pilot + a 10 gunner.

1400 matches and have a lvl 45 engineer a 29 pilot and a sub 10 gunner. Rubs chin deep in thought

So Achievement hunting is still the way to level effectively? Humbug Had heard a rumour that a win = 1000xp and a loss = 100XP

This will explain that when shipping out with new crew who just break the ship and lose the match just for achievements is still biased.

It is beneath myself to bail on any match. Maybe that is something will look in to in the future. Just leave so don't A) Waste my time B) end up with more loses on my tally card. If myself loses with a crew who A) listen B) work hard at not losing, then am satisfied with that.

Just my thoughts and observation's.

Offline Kamoba

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2015, 08:21:56 am »
It is not just the pubs and new players who do it...
People who just buff and ignore repairs because of achievments happens often.

That's the most common reason people only fly with friends and clans..
Perhaps achievements should be less rewarding by themselves?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 08:35:46 am by Kamoba »

Offline Hilary Briss

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2015, 10:01:30 am »
It is not just the pubs and new players who do it...
People who just buff and ignore repairs because of achievments happens often.

That's the most common reason people only fly with friends and clans..
Perhaps achievements should be less rewarding by themselves?

Oh yes am all too fully aware of how selfish some players new, seasoned and achievement players are.
The hull buff being the worst. Hull break---->hull up-->> BangBangBangBangBangBang rest of the ship steadily breaks piece by piece  :'(.
Hull re-buffed, saunter over to a ropey engine or gun then proceed to mallet it now the graft has been done.

Yes but am not against flying with new crew  :) it's really good fun :). Have flown with quite literally hundreds 8) But those out only for themselves, well that kind of goes against what the game to me is meant to represent. Fine go achievement hunting in your clan and with friends but not in public lobbies at the cost of the other crew.

Again just merely an observation.

Offline Kamoba

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2015, 11:22:11 am »
It is not just the pubs and new players who do it...
People who just buff and ignore repairs because of achievments happens often.

That's the most common reason people only fly with friends and clans..
Perhaps achievements should be less rewarding by themselves?

Oh yes am all too fully aware of how selfish some players new, seasoned and achievement players are.
The hull buff being the worst. Hull break---->hull up-->> BangBangBangBangBangBang rest of the ship steadily breaks piece by piece  :'(.
Hull re-buffed, saunter over to a ropey engine or gun then proceed to mallet it now the graft has been done.

Yes but am not against flying with new crew  :) it's really good fun :). Have flown with quite literally hundreds 8) But those out only for themselves, well that kind of goes against what the game to me is meant to represent. Fine go achievement hunting in your clan and with friends but not in public lobbies at the cost of the other crew.

Again just merely an observation.

Very well made point, and I don't mind people hunting achievements on my ship as long as they do it at the right times. :)

Unfortunately there are selfish vets who claim they want to be the best at this game, forgetting the focus of this game is the team work and co-operation.

Achievements and levels do not make best players, working with the team, having fun and improving on mistakes made is the best way to play. :)

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2015, 12:06:03 pm »
I was a level 12 pilot before MM, it jumped me up to 45. But I've never tried to get an achievement. Except that jumping chiev.
I'd be in favor of doing away with achievements just so people focus more on the game. The best judge of skill is matches played. I see a lot of inflated levels.

I've never had a problem with people trying to get achievements at the cost of our success. I help them out, but not if it's something ridiculous like bringing a spanner as a gunner.
If you're having problems with crew chievment whoring run a tight ship. Make sure they bring your loadouts and that they aren't doing something silly.

If ya wanna be a chiev whore get on a different ship.
If they refuse to bring a loadout report them and leave.
Hull buff is always last priority after balloon, engine, and gun buffs...
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 12:07:37 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2015, 05:54:01 pm »
Achievment hunting is best done when the lobby is stacked. That way one team can deliberately Nerf themselves and still get something out of the match. When joining a ship it is courteous to try and win the first few matches before dicking about and trying stupid stuff for achievements and the Lulz.

Offline Ayetach

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2015, 06:14:19 am »
All those level 4's with 0 games played, xp from tutorial achievements is OP.

Yes, that's a problem, half of novice is finished before even a single game is played  ???

Lvl 4 though quantified in the old level system would be equivilent to 1.33 so really its how they should be starting out if we were making a debate of this.

Offline Kamoba

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2015, 07:50:46 am »
All those level 4's with 0 games played, xp from tutorial achievements is OP.

Yes, that's a problem, half of novice is finished before even a single game is played  ???

Lvl 4 though quantified in the old level system would be equivilent to 1.33 so really its how they should be starting out if we were making a debate of this.

The problem then is not the EXP from the tutorials then but instead a problem with the duration of novice period, which to be fully honest is only as long as it takes players to learn how to turn it off...

Offline Ightrril

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2015, 10:29:55 am »
Novice can last between ~10 and ~60 matches. 60 for people who don't specialise in a class and play all three about equally (while also probably not getting tutorial achievements), 10 (or even less) from people who do the tutorial achievements and then get a few achievements during their first few matches.
It's definitely possible to get engineer to lvl5 without playing a single match, may be possible to get it even higher.

I personally think that novice should be tied to match count rather than level since, especially at lower levels, it can be very different for how quickly different people level up. Having it tied to matches (50-100 at least in my opinion) would solve that, as well as not be as hard on those who specialise in a single class.

Comparing the levels in the new system to the old ones doesn't work too well either, it's so much faster even when taking into account the tripled level max.

The XP gains from levels 1 to 7 (gap between each level) are
2000, 3000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000
Won matches give a base of ~1000 XP with perhaps up to 500 extra for really doing your job 'well' (rebuild all the things for engineers etc). Take into account that the achievements at that level also give a lot of XP (around 2000-4000 I believe) and are fairly easy to get then you can start to see how quickly players can be kicked out of novice.

On the other hand this would make more of a difference if novice matches were actually formed by Matchmaking instead of mixing the lobbies, but that's a discussion that has been held many times elsewhere.

Offline Pomalo D'Estyr

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2015, 09:51:44 am »
As a recent graduated novice, I can share some thoughts about that.

It was definitively nice to have some time on a limited selection of ships/guns/build. It felt very overwhelming to have to figure everything out. So I disagree with the idea of experimenting. It would be fun though to have a "field trial" where you could face AI crew with a new build.

Leveling up is nice, and is definitively something that makes me happy because of the dyes and badges.

As I was approaching the levels 6 or 7 in novice mode, I started getting annoyed by total beginners that wouldn't even try and was hitching to play with more experienced players, so I feel like the timing was about right.

The most I learned was from playing with more experienced players, so while it's great to have some time to get the basic mechanics, learning really happens when you get micromanaged or explained what the ship build is about.

Maybe there should be an advanced novice section where experienced players can join to do some teaching (like one per crew?)

Offline Kamoba

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2015, 12:08:58 pm »
Since I started this thread the values of experience and early levels have changed and new players spend more time in novice now. So it's less a problem of people leveling out of Novice in four matches. :)

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2015, 12:52:45 pm »
It is not just the pubs and new players who do it...
People who just buff and ignore repairs because of achievments happens often.

That's the most common reason people only fly with friends and clans..
Perhaps achievements should be less rewarding by themselves?

achieves since 360 has always been its own reward.

Underdog goes the correct direction though by having cosmetics as the rewards for milestones on achievements. replace that with the exp bonus and voila.

lvls give new cosmetics. OF COURSE PEOPLE WILL BREAK THE GAME TO GET FREE CRAP.

Offline Velvet

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2015, 06:43:58 pm »
I wonder if there's a way to get across to players that getting better at the game is its own reward? (beyond just waiting for them to work it out eventually, which is obviously a very unreliable process)

Dota has succeeded at this pretty damn well, and before that the previous generation of FPS managed the same.

Maybe something as simple as letting players view their own matchmaking rating would put the focus more onto "skill progression". Of course that assumes that Muse ever made the matchmaking formula more sophisticated than just win/loss.

Offline Pomalo D'Estyr

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2015, 01:46:43 pm »
I'd be careful about showing off too much about skills and match making ranks because some people then don't want to play with beginners.

I really like the community is super welcoming and teaching! I've been with so many very experienced players who took the time to walk me through a lot and taught me so much. I'd hate to see that go because they might loose rank by loosing games with a young crew!

Offline Kamoba

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Re: Experience Gains - Post MM.
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2015, 02:06:30 pm »
I'd be careful about showing off too much about skills and match making ranks because some people then don't want to play with beginners.

I really like the community is super welcoming and teaching! I've been with so many very experienced players who took the time to walk me through a lot and taught me so much. I'd hate to see that go because they might loose rank by loosing games with a young crew!

Already able to see someone's match count in game, so that "risk" is already there...