Author Topic: How to Lumberjack -levi  (Read 7778 times)

Offline Levi mann

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How to Lumberjack -levi
« on: January 03, 2015, 06:17:42 pm »
[Lumberjack]

Sit down, relax, Strap on your Goggles, Grab an extra box of ammunition, and get ready for the largest, most intricate, nerd out, break down of the Lumberjack Heavy Mortar that i have yet to do.(side note this is my first post about the Lumberjack)


This Guide is for Game patch 1.3.9 but seeing as how the Lumberjack has not changed much since it conception i am sure these numbers will be future proof. This guide will strive to explain some game theory behind shooting and piloting with a Lumberjack, the attributes of each ammunition, and when each individual ammunition should be used.

Shooting a Lumberjack is one of the few positions currently in the game that can benefit from the Gunner class. The Lumberjack’s .8 second arm time means that it can benefit from range reducing ammunition such as Greased, Heatsink, Incendiary, or most noticeably Lochnagar. The Lumberjack is also the second farthest shooting Gun in the game, only beaten out by the Mercury Field Gun.

The Lumberjack’s base damage is Shatter, and its secondary AOE damage, is Flechette. When the Lumberjack is within its .8 second arm time all of its AOE damage is removed meaning it only does its base Shatter damage, with this in mind it is still possible to shoot out Guns and Engines because these components are unaffected by Flechette to begin with.



When shooting Lumberjacks there are a few things to keep in mind:

How far away is the enemy?

Knowing the range will allow you to be able to compensate the required amount to hit with accuracy. Lumberjacks have a the most bullet drop of any gun in the game(even more than the mine) this means it is vital to choose the correct ammunition for the range of the engagement.

What Speed is the enemy moving?
Knowing the speed of a target will allow you to lead the your shots. The distance of a target divided by the speed of the bullet gives you the time that you will need to lead your shots.

What way is my ship turning and moving?
Bullets fired from a Lumberjack inherit the movement of the ship. This means it is vital that you communicate with you captain as to when you are shooting, se he can be still, and when you are reloading, so he can maneuver.


Tips for Piloting a Lumberjack:

Shooting a Lumberjack is just as much the pilots job as it is the gunner’s. Without an incredibly stable firing platform the Lumberjack is nearly impossible to shoot effectively. There are several ways of stabilizing you gunners firing platform.When piloting a ship with a Lumberjack try only to turn one way at a time. If you make a hard turn to the left avoid cranking the wheel to the right to slow your turn, this creates a fishtail effect creating a shaky firing platform and inturn missed shots. In the event you need to make a long sustained turn be sure to burn a small amount of kerosene or moonshine  once you leave your phoenix claw turn. Here is an example of a flawed turn with only phoenix claw:


as you can see the ship drifts quite aways after all helm tools have been switched
off and the helm has been released. Here is a turn with a kerosene air break:


This turn is a lot more snappy, it also is incredibly stable, there is also no fish tail from a reverse turn.

The Lumberjack has a short turn radius, meaning that it is up to the captain to keep the gun in ache at all time, on a ship like a Lumber-fish or Lumber-spire, this is vital, because the Lumberjack is a large portion of the damage. But on the other Hand the Lumberjack has the highest vertical angle of any gun in the game, meaning that you will never have to gain altitude!



This brings me to tools that a pilot flying a ship with a lumberjack should bring.

Phoenix Claw, will allow a pilot to keep the short turning radius of the lumberjack constantly in ache of the enemy.



Kerosene, this will allow you to do the maneuver that i showed above as well as giving you a good boost to speed and engine power in rams, without burning out your engines.



Chute Vent, will allow you to escape changing enemies, while taking advantage of the Lumberjack’s impressive vertical angle, unlike Hydrogen which will only provide you with an escape. Chute Vent can also be used, to great effect, to crush enemies, once their balloon is knocked out.



Ammunition:
I have broken the Ammunition choices into five Groups Lesmok,Mid Range,Close Range,Incendiary, and Lochnagar. Each of the ammunitions in these groups have the same firing pattern as the other once in their groups, but each ammunition in unique in their own way!


[Lesmok]
Lesmok is the Longest range ammunition available to gunners making invaluable on large maps!

Max range: 2805m
Shell life: 6 Seconds
Arming distance: 374m
Arming time: .8 seconds
Reload time: 7.7 seconds
Projectile speed: 467.5

Seconds of lead time:
500m     1.07
800m     1.71
1000m   2.14
1200m   2.57
1500m   3.21
2000m   4.28
2500m   5.34




Lesmok: Lesmok has a massive buff to range, extending it over 1200m beyond the normal range. With only a reduced clip size this is a must have ammunition. The bullet lift also helps in mid range engagements, flattening out the bullet drop.




[Mid range]
Mid range munitions are capable of reaching out and wrecking enemy balloons and components while also being able get up close and still dish out the damage.

Max range: 1650m
Shell life: 6 seconds
Arming distance: 220m
Arming time: .8 seconds
Reload time: 7.7 seconds
Projectile speed: 275mps

Seconds of lead time:
500m     1.82
800m     2.91
1000m   3.64
1200m   4.36
1500m   5.45



Normal: Normal ammunition is the one the muse gods have blessed us with. it has a powerful damage, capable of two shot balloon pops, while buffed; and decent range and standard arm time. It is very useful at mid ranges as your fourth ammunition.



Charged: Charged ammunition is the only ammunition that is capable of performing a two shot balloon pop with out  a buff hammer. this makes it invaluable  in situations where you do not have a buff hammer, but in situations where a buff hammer is present, charged is out stripped by every other ammunition; charged is crippled by its slow rate of fire and reduced clip size.




Burst: Burst has only one down side, this is its deplorable rate of fire, the slowest rate of fire. But if a gunner can overcome this slit drag, Burst is an extremely relevant choice when it comes to ammunition. Burst has an increased clip size, no reduction in damage, and massively buffed AOE damage bloom. This increase to AOE bloom means that the Lumberjack’s secondary damage, Flechette, is stretched across a greater area, but what does this mean for the gunner? This AOE buff means that you don't even have to hit the balloon to destroy it, you just have to get close enough. Burst is also capable of a two shot balloon pop, while buffed.





[Close range]
Close range munitions have a reduced arm time and max range making them perfect for close range engagements. 

Max range: 1320m
Shell life: 6 seconds
Arming distance: 176
Arming time: .8 seconds
Reload time: 7.7 seconds
Projectile speed: 220mps

Seconds of lead time:
500m     2.27
800m     3.64
1000m   4.55
1200m   5.45



Greased: Greased rounds have increased rate of fire and clip size, but it suffers from a reduced damaged. Greased rounds are not capable of a two shot balloon pop, buffed or unbuffed, but its increased rate of fire means that you will be able to shoot three shots in about the same time other ammunitions can shoot two meaning that infact it has about an equal balloon pop time. Greased’s rate of fire also gives it the highest damage per second of any ammunition, but it does lack the damage per clip that other munitions in it’s class favor. Greased also can be used when a target is with in arming time, its high rate of fire means you will be able to land hits in quick succession on components increasing your chances of damaging or destroying them.




Heatsink: Heatsink is a very useful ammunition. Heatsink has the most increased clip size of any ammunition, and it pays for this with only a slight reduction in damage. This masvie clip allows a gunner to be able to juggle balloon popping on two different targets. While Heatsink is loaded the gun can not catch on fire and when it first slides in it extinguishes 3 fire stacks. This fire quark is very helpful because it allows a gunner to control his own fires, freeing up and engineer to focus on other tasks.




[Incendiary]
Incendiary has the second shortest arm time of all the ammunition making it perfect for close ranges. Aiming of Incendiary ammunition is nearly identical to that of close range munitions, just slightly shallower.

Max range:1237m
Shell life: 6 seconds
Arming distance: 165m
Arming time: .8 seconds
Reload time: 7.7 seconds
Projectile speed: 206mps

Seconds of lead time:
500m     2.43
800m     3.88
1000m   4.85
1200m   5.83




Incendiary: Incendiary, unlike “close range” munitions, does not have a reduction to damage, this means it is capable of landing a two shot balloon pop, while buffed. Incendiary does have a lackluster rate of fire and clip size, but Incendiary’s higher single shot damage can be used to quickly pop multiple balloons.




[Lochnagar]
Lochnagar is a very powerful addition to a gunners arsenal. Lochnagar retains the same range as vanilla ammunition but has a greatly reduced arm time.

Max range: 1650m
Shell life: 6 seconds
Arming distance: 88m
Arming time: .32 seconds
Reload time: 8.5 seconds
Projectile speed: 275mps

Seconds of lead time:
500m     1.82
800m     2.91
1000m   3.64
1200m   4.36
1500m   5.45


Lochnagar: Lochnagar has the shortest arm time of any ammunition, it also has the most damage from a single shell. Lochnagar does enough damage to take down a balloon with one shot, buffed or unbuffed. This means it is perfect for dropping a close target's balloon, but its ridiculously slow rate of fire means that it is out striped for damage per seconds by every other ammunition.






Offline Replaceable

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2015, 08:16:20 pm »
10/10 Guide. Will reference when i shoot lumberjack.
I thought the chute vent is a nice choice- pilots tend to ignore it these days.
I also very much enjoyed the lead times part.
There's no excuse for bad lumberjack gunning now!
Stellar work on the numbers- and the pictures were a very nice touch too.

This guide, paired with the lumberfishes i've been on with BlackenedSkies at the helm makes me very excited to see the clamour fly tomorrow. :D

Offline DJ Logicalia

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2015, 08:37:20 pm »
This is really good, thanks :D

Offline Indreams

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2015, 09:38:58 pm »
Salute, and would salute again.

I'm often the only guy on the ship that can shoot a lumberjack, and I'm often the pilot. With this new guide to piloting a lumberjack, my gunner (who swore to Muse gods and Skywhales that he is a top notch lumber shot) has no excuse for missing.

Thanks! :) Salute, and would salute again.

Offline Sandy Hawkins

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2015, 10:12:32 pm »
Excellent guide, instant bookmark.

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2015, 02:28:14 am »
gr8 m8, 8/8 would r8 8/8.

Seriously, bookmarked in like three places.  I love love love the lead times/leading pictures, and the .gifs were a nice touch.

Offline OnlyMan.

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2015, 07:09:55 pm »
2mlg4me bro. good job

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2016, 06:50:40 am »
I'm bad at using the Lumberjack. I want to be good at using the Lumberjack. This should help. Those pictures should be really useful! Thanks for your effort :D

Offline ZnC

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2016, 09:54:19 am »
Excellent work; good coverage of all the ammo types. This should be posted onto the Steam Community Guides too.

Greased is the most popular secondary ammo because it theoretically maximizes DPS and reduces arming range. To be frank, however, I find that very impractical. What I've found is that because of lower Projectile Speed and excessive screen shake, it is much less accurate. Arming range is only reduced by 44m, and at close range the Gunner should really be firing a Loch while the ship backs out.

One might argue that at close range, you need all the arming range reduction you can get (44m... -_-). However, the counter-argument is that the Lumberjack should not be getting into that range in the first place - use the Hwacha/H.Carro for brawls.

My favourite secondary round on the LJ is Charged, for good reason. It is worth noting that Charged Rounds will 1-hit Balloon rebuilds with Mallet hit, and is much more accurate. If one takes into account that Greased "over-damages" the Balloon (losing the extra damage), Charged is the most efficient DPS-wise.

In the end, however, it comes down to personal preference and practice. Both Greased and Charged will get the job done (albeit differently). Let the Gunner decide if he wants Greased or Charged for mid range (other ammos kinda suck).

Offline nanoduckling

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2016, 11:20:51 am »
Mostly agree with Zanc, especially about this needing to go up on the Steam Guides, very good work Levi. Not sure I completely agree with Zanc about ammo though, I still think a lumberfish can be used in a bit closer. El and I have had some success with a more brawly lumberfish that stays at greased range and uses a mine launcher. On the other hand if your first requirement for a build is "have a gunner of El's quality" it is probably not universally applicable.

I also prefer burst to charged. Charged is certainly best for raw DPS and kills, but burst basically ensures if you land your shot you hit the balloon with the AoE on most ships, and you will likely hit a few components too. Not for much damage, but after a couple of cycles that damage adds up and with one engineer glued to the balloon the other one has to stop chem cycling or leave the ship at reduced capability. If the former you close and open up with a quick side banshee or incend in the lumber and now they have fire stacks to deal with to add to the misery.

Still if you don't plan on being crazy like me and trying to make a lumberfish work on Paritan you are probably better of with lesmok / charged (or greased) / loch and keeping your distance.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2016, 11:54:02 am »
Note that flechette has a 0 modifier against components. The extra burst radius from burst ammo has no effect on components
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 12:22:28 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline nanoduckling

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2016, 01:56:05 pm »
So it does, mea culpa. I tested that out in the blast yard and everything, must have been direct hits breaking components. In that case burst is pretty much useless to decent gunners.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2016, 02:12:33 pm »
It has use for guaranteeing hits on balloon and the high damage per clip (but lower dps). If they're double rebuilding the balloon then burst can break it twice in one clip. Charged is the highest dps and great if you don't plan to get in arm time, otherwise greased is good and not hard to aim when you're that close (same dps as charged). Heatsink is another option and is very easy to aim. In practice the -17% damage makes little difference and it has the highest shots per clip. For training players heatsink is a good substitute for greased and I have often seen the loadout of lesmok heatsink greased on pro lumber gunners

If you won't ever be less than 220m away then the best option is buffed lesmok. Buffed lumber breaks a balloon in two shots and buffed regular does 14% more dps than charged
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 02:26:57 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline ZnC

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2016, 03:09:31 pm »
Interestingly from the discussion, I noticed your responses have (mostly) the perspective of a Lumberfish. It seems that the Lumberjack differs in execution depending on the ship. On the Goldfish, the Buff Engi doesn't have a (forward) Gun to shoot, so the LJ stays buffed. However, it doesn't always happen on a Galleon, and often not on a Spire.

It is not fair to compare different ammo types buffed vs un-buffed. So I'm inferring that Pies is suggesting the Gun-gineer for that comparison (buffed Vanilla vs Charged). I haven't thought about it before, but it does sound viable on a Goldfish. The trade-off is Gunner stamina and Lochnagar; which are both useful in certain situations.

Heatsink and Burst are useful for Balloon locks because of their extended clip size. They are strong ammo types if that is the only intention. However, it is wasteful of the sheer killing power the LJ has.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: How to Lumberjack -levi
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2016, 04:59:34 pm »
It's easy to have the lumber buffed on fish at the start, but in a tough fight it's more important to have the engines and balloon buffed. The other buffs make it easier to lock down ships at which point you can focus on solely buffing the lumber. You don't wanna get stuck in an avoidable situation when you need a buffed balloon and main engine. On galleon and spire you'll start off with a buffed lumber but it's more important to shoot and buff the other guns than keep the gunner buffed

Lochnagar is useful on galleon, less so on spire, and not very on fish. Lochnagar effectively halves your dps and is a last chance shot. It has use on spire where you might get stuck with a ship too close and still do damage with your other guns, but spire is practically the 2nd most maneuverable ship and can often avoid these situations. The most dangerous ship to lumberspire is fish (and squid)
You shouldn't get that close with fish, and if you do it's time to run. It doesn't hurt to bring loch on fish but there are better ammos. I used to bring lumberfish a lot and often brought loch but it's not ideal. I've never lost a match with lumberfish on Labyrinth but I wouldn't recommend anyone try it. The best times to bring lumberfish are against galleons, junkers, and spires

Nowadays if I bring a lumber on spire or fish I always bring a buff engi. 220m is pretty damn close and if you're bringing a lumber then you expect every engagement to start at lesmok range. The ability to 2-shot a balloon with lesmok is extremely powerful especially at ranges where some shots miss. If you get close then it's time to dodge. Use the spire's excellent maneuverability and buff the bottom deck. With two buff engis you can quickly buff all engines and balloon. Save some stamina and when you're ready pull out with kero, stamina, and maybe hydro with all engis running to their guns. You'll shoot out like an angry rocket
I typically don't use lumberspire in regular pub matches anymore because it's so overpowered, and only bring it in non-ideal circumstances like against fish. Gunner stamina isn't as useful at long range where you don't need the extra arcs or turning speed. If you're planning on staying at range then the best option is a buff engi which helps resist damage and does much higher damage. With good positioning you have nothing to fear from (brawl) galleons, junkers, and spires
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 05:22:54 pm by BlackenedPies »