Gunmander - Captaining from the deck

[Replaceable]

If fun is what you want, FlakFish and double merc pyra is viable.

But in all other terms- this is not viable one bit.

Its viable against double galleon.

Wait, is double galleon viable?

Well they can 1v1 i suppose...

[Alistair MacBain]

More than a flakfish. Double Galleon got another problem but just from the definition they are able to actually 1v1 someone.

[Agent Of Change]

So what i'm getting is that a Flakfish can be fun, mostly for support if used, viable for a gunmander BUT not recommended due to weakness up close and the inability to 1v1 well.

That's some good info as we toy around with stuff.

Now we've been doing this well with a junker as well so far, But I suspect the Squid Might just be a good ship to try this with given the location of the helm.

Any thoughts on potentially Gunmandering a squid?  builds, thoughts?  I know that you may not think it's a great idea but just humor me here and brain storm what 'might' work.

[DJ Logicalia]

So what i'm getting is that a Flakfish can be fun, mostly for support if used, viable for a gunmander BUT not recommended due to weakness up close and the inability to 1v1 well.

That's some good info as we toy around with stuff.

Now we've been doing this well with a junker as well so far, But I suspect the Squid Might just be a good ship to try this with given the location of the helm.

Any thoughts on potentially Gunmandering a squid?  builds, thoughts?  I know that you may not think it's a great idea but just humor me here and brain storm what 'might' work.

Generally, you don't want a gunner on a squid at all. Almost everyone runs triple engi squid, because A) A you don't need that many ammo types and B) sooooooo many things to repair and buff. Having two buff engis and a standard engi makes for a happy squid. In terms of the whole "gunmander", I can't think of a single scenario where it would be more efficient to have a gunner in charge than a pilot. It might be fun, for sure! A nice change to the normal gameplay, but less efficient, to be sure

[Agent Of Change]

Generally, you don't want a gunner on a squid at all. Almost everyone runs triple engi squid, because A) A you don't need that many ammo types and B) sooooooo many things to repair and buff. Having two buff engis and a standard engi makes for a happy squid. In terms of the whole "gunmander", I can't think of a single scenario where it would be more efficient to have a gunner in charge than a pilot. It might be fun, for sure! A nice change to the normal gameplay, but less efficient, to be sure

I take your point, I've only been on a squid twice, but thinking about it in that light I think you are right. Ok on to finding other approaches for the squid.

[GeoRmr]

So what i'm getting is that a Flakfish can be fun, mostly for support if used, viable for a gunmander BUT not recommended due to weakness up close and the inability to 1v1 well.

That's some good info as we toy around with stuff.

Now we've been doing this well with a junker as well so far, But I suspect the Squid Might just be a good ship to try this with given the location of the helm.

Any thoughts on potentially Gunmandering a squid?  builds, thoughts?  I know that you may not think it's a great idea but just humor me here and brain storm what 'might' work.

Generally, you don't want a gunner on a squid at all. Almost everyone runs triple engi squid, because A) A you don't need that many ammo types and B) sooooooo many things to repair and buff. Having two buff engis and a standard engi makes for a happy squid. In terms of the whole "gunmander", I can't think of a single scenario where it would be more efficient to have a gunner in charge than a pilot. It might be fun, for sure! A nice change to the normal gameplay, but less efficient, to be sure

Depending on the build yes you do need that many ammo types, and yes you should have a gunner on a squid. for example front flamer aft mines, or squid builds that use a front hades


"I can't think of a single scenario where it would be more efficient to have a gunner in charge"

1. When flying with newbie pilots who are less experienced than the gunner.
2. When the gunner has LOS on an unspotted and unspottable enemy and the pilot does not (happens all the freaking time on mobulas and galleons).
3. When the gunner has LOS on an unspotted and unspottable enemy ship and the ally ships pilot does not.
4. When the gunner can confirm disables on enemy ships and order a safe change of focus fire when the captains are preoccupied with positioning.
5. To instruct the pilot of difficult gun arcs on exotic builds.
6. To instruct engineers who are not looking at the enemy safe opportunities to shoot when the pilot is preoccupied with positioning.

"A nice change to the normal gameplay"

Backseat instruction to the pilots doesn't really change anything.

[Mean Machine]

So what i'm getting is that a Flakfish can be fun, mostly for support if used, viable for a gunmander BUT not recommended due to weakness up close and the inability to 1v1 well.

That's some good info as we toy around with stuff.

Now we've been doing this well with a junker as well so far, But I suspect the Squid Might just be a good ship to try this with given the location of the helm.

Any thoughts on potentially Gunmandering a squid?  builds, thoughts?  I know that you may not think it's a great idea but just humor me here and brain storm what 'might' work.

Generally, you don't want a gunner on a squid at all. Almost everyone runs triple engi squid, because A) A you don't need that many ammo types and B) sooooooo many things to repair and buff. Having two buff engis and a standard engi makes for a happy squid. In terms of the whole "gunmander", I can't think of a single scenario where it would be more efficient to have a gunner in charge than a pilot. It might be fun, for sure! A nice change to the normal gameplay, but less efficient, to be sure

Depending on the build yes you do need that many ammo types, and yes you should have a gunner on a squid. for example front flamer aft mines, or squid builds that use a front hades


"I can't think of a single scenario where it would be more efficient to have a gunner in charge"

1. When flying with newbie pilots who are less experienced than the gunner.
2. When the gunner has LOS on an unspotted and unspottable enemy and the pilot does not (happens all the freaking time on mobulas and galleons).
3. When the gunner has LOS on an unspotted and unspottable enemy ship and the ally ships pilot does not.
4. When the gunner can confirm disables on enemy ships and order a safe change of focus fire when the captains are preoccupied with positioning.
5. To instruct the pilot of difficult gun arcs on exotic builds.
6. To instruct engineers who are not looking at the enemy safe opportunities to shoot when the pilot is preoccupied with positioning.

Gunners are doing all of that already and they are not concidered to be "in charge". That's normal for a gunner to inform captain of enemy position if captain can't see it for example. Or that guns are not in arcs.

I agree with Logicallia there, I can't see any situation where gunner calling the shots would be better idea than captain doing it. Captain usually have better view of the ship and its surroundings. Gunners spend a lot of time on gun shooting, reloading etc., so they are not aware of what exactly is happening on the ship, not  as much as pilot. Pilot can keep track of where enemy is, what his gunner is shooting, what engineers are doing and more with no problem. Pilot is the one who knows what he wants to do in particular situation and therefore can react fastest. If you wait for gunner to tell you what to do, you're wasting a lot of time that could be crucial for survival. Plus where is fun in piloting if all you do is waiti on gunne to tell you how to pilot your ship and when to turn?

[GeoRmr]

Oh i didn't reallise this was a -

press W for 2 seconds
tap hydrogen for 1 second
look left with the mouse
press F twice press 1 once and then hold D for 5 seconds before pressing 0 and then R twice
wipe your arse from front to back not back to front

- type deal about gunners being in charge.

My first point still stands though.
1. When flying with newbie pilots who are less experienced than the gunner.

[DJ Logicalia]

Depending on the build yes you do need that many ammo types, and yes you should have a gunner on a squid. for example front flamer aft mines, or squid builds that use a front hades


"I can't think of a single scenario where it would be more efficient to have a gunner in charge"

1. When flying with newbie pilots who are less experienced than the gunner.
2. When the gunner has LOS on an unspotted and unspottable enemy and the pilot does not (happens all the freaking time on mobulas and galleons).
3. When the gunner has LOS on an unspotted and unspottable enemy ship and the ally ships pilot does not.
4. When the gunner can confirm disables on enemy ships and order a safe change of focus fire when the captains are preoccupied with positioning.
5. To instruct the pilot of difficult gun arcs on exotic builds.
6. To instruct engineers who are not looking at the enemy safe opportunities to shoot when the pilot is preoccupied with positioning.

"A nice change to the normal gameplay"

Backseat instruction to the pilots doesn't really change anything.

Sorry, that was the point of the "generally", but I should have given examples of when the general rule is broken
I should preface this next part with: you're a better player than I am, and am open to being wrong here
And as far as your other points, I'm fairly sure that a pilot isn't needed to be replaced as captain to ensure that these tasks are accomplished. Aside from 1 and maybe 3 (but I feel needing to communicate instantly an ally captain instantly in a situation where where the gunner is the only one who sees the enemy would be so rare, you could say that about any member of the ship. Good communication within a ship solves that problem fast enough most of the time). In fact, I feel most of these issues are solved through good communication.

edit: I TYPED ALL OF THIS, AND I'M GOING TO POST IT, DAMN IT

[Alistair MacBain]

Sure when there are certain situations a gunner may give certain calls. But those are moments. You will suffer if you put every decision for tactic on the gunner for a whole match.

[Arturo Sanchez]

Whenever I face double galleon I use one galleon as cover and kill the cover before charging for the next one.

I imagine a decent tactic to fight as a double galleon team is purely defensive. Usually sitting in a one line of approach area. Like a map corner or cul de sacs.

You'd need to be packing hydro and chute and claw.

case in point if a galleon can't be out manuvered. It cannot be beaten. I would poop myself against a full galleon team in desert scraps.
IF they manage to take up position on the point. Otherwise, not a chance in hell. You need a lighter ship to pin the enemy down.

[Agent Of Change]

Oh i didn't reallise this was a -

press W for 2 seconds
tap hydrogen for 1 second
look left with the mouse
press F twice press 1 once and then hold D for 5 seconds before pressing 0 and then R twice
wipe your arse from front to back not back to front

- type deal about gunners being in charge.

My first point still stands though.
1. When flying with newbie pilots who are less experienced than the gunner.

It's not at all the case at least as i have meant it.  As we have been working it I tell my pilot roughly where I want to go what target i am planning on engaging, what gun i want on target and how far away i want it.  The pilot uses his discretion on his abilities and evasive maneuvers.  I'm responsible for communicating and coordinating with the other commander and directing fire from our boat in regards to engineers not actively repairing stuff.

Where the ship is wounded or escape is necessary the pilots authority trumps mine (that is understood), in all other cases it is my ship to direct.  Sometimes in close engagements I'll tell the pilot what i need him to do to keep my guns on target but short of that he's flying the boat.

we all started playing at the same time so I'm not more experienced than my pilot but I am nominally the leader of our clan so it was unlikely i wouldn't find myself in a command role, I just didn't want to pilot, my pilot wanted to fly but not really to command.  So we began this experiment, now we are just trying to find the best ways to make it work and refine it as a strategy.

[ShadedExalt]

If you think it could work, do what you will.  You really should try flying sometime though.  It's very... liberating.  Also it's fun as hell.  If you find me in game, I'd be interested in spectating a match, crewing on your ship, or even captaining an ally ship with your team.  Just friend me!

[Agent Of Change]

If you think it could work, do what you will.  You really should try flying sometime though.  It's very... liberating.  Also it's fun as hell.  If you find me in game, I'd be interested in spectating a match, crewing on your ship, or even captaining an ally ship with your team.  Just friend me!

will do

[Admiral Ackbar RTDT]

Having a Captain at all will help you win more matches so I think a Gunmander is not a terrible idea. That being said reaction time becomes more and more important the better your opponents are so keep that in mind. I could see it working on a Squid because you can run around and get more perspective about what's behind you.