Author Topic: 2nd round of balance testing  (Read 10381 times)

Offline Omniraptor

  • Member
  • Salutes: 51
    • [Duck]
    • 27 
    • 45
    • 38 
    • View Profile
Re: 2nd round of balance testing
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2014, 12:19:44 pm »
Don't forget the hull profile (hello hades) and generally exposed components are a big factor in spire squishiness. Those are going nowhere fast.

Offline Mezhu

  • Member
  • Salutes: 33
    • [Sgar]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 41 
    • View Profile
Re: 2nd round of balance testing
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2014, 12:28:28 pm »
Please, stop considering pyra nerfs or at least explain why you are. The 'metamidion op' whinetrain has stopped a while ago, I barely even see pyras in pubs nowadays (not kidding). Pyra's a mediocre ship in terms of firepower, it's slow as a pregnant brick and it's fully covered in armor (which is also rather mediocre).

@Spire having more health I agree. It needs more permahull in order to achieve its' glass cannon role (emphasizing shooting over repairs at the cost of suffering some perma damage). In combination with the accelaretion buff, though, and the huge boost in health (+25% is a lot) it ends up being too much. Either allow it to quickly get out of bad situations OR to stay in them for longer, not both.

@Squid, the accelaretion buff is good. Turning the hull into a damage-sponge isn't.

It feels like all the changes are an attempt to allow face to face fights between all ships, which just dumpens down the game. The squid should excel in terms of outmaneuvering, and punishing enemy and own pilot mistakes. With 1000hp, it's actually quite forgiving. I'll agree with Glitter (that's a rare occasion, someone screenshot this)- give it more accel and leave its' perma as it was. The spire should be able to kill an enemy in the least time possible WHEN properly positioned, but still have quite a hard time when in enemy arcs. Generally, I feel that just rescaling problematic ships' HP to extreme levels while reducing other ones feels entirely forced and is kind of a balance cheap-trick. A full explosive gun clip emptied agaisnt a defenseless ship should always be rewarding, and ships able to survive more than one shouldn't become the norm.

Offline GeoRmr

  • Member
  • Salutes: 178
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 1
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Storm Ryders
Re: 2nd round of balance testing
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2014, 01:50:03 pm »
Everything Mezhu said.

Offline Crafeksterty

  • Member
  • Salutes: 73
    • [GwTh]
    • 17 
    • 28
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: 2nd round of balance testing
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2014, 05:26:53 pm »
I don't understand.. a glass cannon is not supposed to survive a direct gunfight, which it's why it's supposed to have greater maneuverability to get the heck out of dodge.


Awe come on! Its not like its not firing back! A spire that is in a direct gun fight versus another ship in this current state is at an EQUAL! 4 guns versus 2 guns can end either way. Which doesnt exactly reward or convey the play style for the spire. You have 4 guns, you should be able out gun. But you barely do. Now the spire will always win because he has that extra health wich also means that he will loose health anyway, it is just forgiving the spire for its inside managment of its guns. If the spire is using 2 guns, he wont survive versus a pyra. The spires armor will go down the pyra will still stay same old story with spires dying real easy. I mean, its not like the armor and size has changed.

And i dont exactly know how you want the spire to have greater meneuverability to dodge, with its current size. The only thing that is satisfactory enough is its vertical speed with hydro and Buff. But its horizontal speed is not, the only good uses of it is going into cover, or TURNING to dodge a few slow projectile shots. Unlikley that you will dodge rams if you werent turned allready. The speed change doesnt make it more dodgy, it just makes it position better, get to where it wants better. Range play better. Not dodge...

Stat change dont make a role on the ship, the ship allready has a design. Pyra will still be able to persuit and ram hard. The spire will still die quickly, just not as quick as before. And thats by 2 or 3 extra mortar shots if i remember. The only diffrence is that the outcome will be more in favour of the spire if your going up in a direct gun fight versus it. Or well a healthy gun fight.
And thats because of the health. This in most cases will help players cope with the spires dying problem.

In my case, what makes a diffrence in a direct gun fight is the heavy gun, it changes practicaly most outcomes.

BUT if we give it TOO MUCH health. Il say it may just turn into something very broken.  Not op wise, but its going to force people to choose disabling every time versus something as easy to hit as a spire. Like its design just goes against itself. Knowing that you can take out the armor of the spire and start killing it makes you wanna take stuff like explosive and piercing. Now the opposite of that, then youl just take disabling and make the spire a sitting duck. Combine that with its difficult management and repair routine, you have yourself a ship people will hate.


----

So for me, i like this balance. The health is JUST enough. Its not tanky, dont think it is tanky. Its not. Its big and i mean the armor is pretty visible. It will just survive a gunfight for just an extra bit longer so it can kill before itself gets killed. The speed as much as i like it, rather just have a good accell buff, not top speed. The combination of 4.5 and 28 topspeed does give it great control. But its long distance hauling can be a dangerous balance. Simple extra accell should still give it quick slow speeds of control.