Why does everyone hate Gunners?

[SaintR.L.]

This is why I don't let people under level, say, 20, have a buffkit on my ships.  They get obsessed with their buffing 'chieves and you end up with nobody shooting.

I'm honestly surprised that some people care achieves enough to refuse to listen to their captain and bring that one wrong ammo, no fire control, or even repair tools sometimes. You can level up normally now dammit!

[Omniraptor]

What's more, winning matches is like 20x more efficient than grinding achievements if you want to level up asap

[Teh Celery's]

I read a few of the comments here, but I will post my own reply to the original post.

People who "hate" gunners do so because they have absolutely no frakking idea how to use them.
A good gunner, with the right rounds goes a very long way, on pretty much ANY ship, with ANY loadout.

Read Geo's post on page 1 for a really good description.

To reiterate,
Only the boring ships require 3 engineers (with the exception of the Mobula, but even that is up for debate...)

[SirNotlag]

I find the mobula is the only ship I run where I want 3 engineers to overcome how hard it is to repair, all other ships I want a gunner because they add versatility provided they take the right rounds.

[B'Elanna]

because

• Start out as an Engineer:
  Learn what the ship can sustain
  Learn to identify incoming damage types by sound
  Notice what kind and how much damage which pilot tool does
  Learn how to quickly and efficiently shoot while still being on constant repair rounds
  
• Become a Gunner:
  Learn the different guns and what damage they do, where to aim at them, and how to time them right
  Learn the different gun arcs!
  Learn ammo types: range, damage, clip size and finally, what gun they do what on!
  Use and utilize your engineering skills to NOTICE WHEN YOUR GUN IS DAMAGED AND REPAIR IT YOURSELF
  
• Become a Pilot
  Learn what pilot tools do and how they feel, what difference they make
  Learn what pilot tool is the one that helps you the most on each ship
  Try interesting load outs with your knowledge as a gunner and test your ability to pull them off
  Learn the maps and figure out different strategies with different ships, and different ally ships
  Learn to communicate with your co-pilot, and learn to adapt to their possibly poor choices
  Learn how to be a captain: explain and share your knowledge with newer players and tell your crew what you plan to do or achieve in this match!
  
• NOW GO BACK ALL THESE STEPS AND DO ALL THESE JOBS AS AN ENGINEER WITH SIMPLY ONE TOOL TO MAKE YOUR JOB EASIER AND BUFF AND TANK LIKE A BOSS

[Richard LeMoon]

I would add to 2 with:

Learn when to stop shooting and start fixing. If your hull and balloon are down, and engines are broken, your pilot will never get you the shot.

[sparklerfish]

I was just thinking that one of the main reasons people are often wary about taking a gunner is fire.  A gunner cannot take fire suppression because it would leave them unable to repair/repair their own gun, which is a higher priority because it's easier for an engineer to run by and throw a chem or extinguish on than rebuild/repair every time the gun is damaged or goes down.

I've argued quite a bit for nerfing fire, and I think doing so would help make gunners more viable.  Not having to worry so much about fire or perfectly chem cycling would make it easier to rely on just one engineering tool.  It would make ships with less experienced engineers that aren't as dutiful at chem spraying able to deal with a ship that has a gunner -- how many times have you played in a pub match with randoms and had, say, your bottom deck junker guns sprayed?  Whenever that (rarely and miraculously) happens to me it's like seeing a unicorn.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

They had fire nerfed, it didn't help gunners at all. No one wanted them.

A buff to heatsink might change that. If heatsink had better suppression on guns then it would work as a form of chemming and gunners might be a bit more viable.

[B'Elanna]

what if loading heatsink would extinguish and chem the gun. no matter the stacks?

[Devinstater]

Lordy I seemed to have hit on a sensitive topic.

Hamster taught me how to gun when I first started, hi man.

You guys are right, it is mostly pyramid demons (haha auto correct, I left that in) that want me to switch to engineer. I've been hopping onto ships with longer range guns and people are more receptive to having a gunner.

[Replaceable]

Pyramid Demons.

I..

Perfect. Just perfect.
I love it.

[Sammy B. T.]

All in favor of adopting Pyramid Demons as GOIO jargon say "Aye!"

[DJ Logicalia]

Aye!

[HamsterIV]

Devinstater you are making me feel old. The value of a gunner is something that has been hotly debated with no satisfactory conclusion. By my levels you can safely guess I fall into the anti gunner camp.

[Replaceable]

Aye!