Fire extinguisher vs. chem spray

[Kouhei Sakurai]

Just a quick question: for the different types of engineers, which firefighting tool is better? Also, are there any ships where one of the firefighting tool becomes significantly better? (E.g. due to ship layouts multiple components are clumped together and usually catch fire at the same time, etc?)

[Alistair MacBain]

In almost every situation a chem spray is superior to a ext. Atleast imo.
For a Galleon you sometimes want a ext as lower deck engi. Similiar for the frontengi on a junker.
But those cases are rare ... A chem will never serve you bad if you can use it correct.
A ext might screw you over.

[Indreams]

From my experience, which is very very shallow, any ship other than the Mobula and the Spire handles fire fairly well. However, every ship will have one or more components that is very hard to reach.

Goldfish's main engine is almost never reached mid-fight.
Pyramidion's top-deck components will almost never be worked by the main engi.
Junker has the top two engines that is hard to repair.
Squid's back gun is almost never tended.
Mobula's hull and balloons are hidden below deck.

so on and so forth...
It is a good idea to spray these components before a fire fight.

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When it comes to a comparison between extinguisher and chem spray, there's no clear winner, as their usefulness is situational.

Chem Spray will hard counter flamethrowers and other flame-based disables. With clever application, the spray will enable your ship for the duration of a skirmish. But if a component catches fire, the sprayer has no choice but to let the component burn out.

Extinguisher lacks the power of the chem spray, but with the extinguisher, the engineer can better focus on repairs and rebuilds.

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I think the general rule is to have one chem spray engi and one extinguisher engi.

By the way, never run extinguisher and spray at the same time. That is the mistake for a nincompoop.

Thank you for reading,   

[Replaceable]

Pretty much what alastair said.
But, if you remember to chem, chem is better.
If you don't chem then you may as well have fire extinguisher.
But a chem sprayed ship is better than a ship of all extinguishers.

On some ships though- where there is no time to chem, i request extinguishers.
(Like a spire. And a mobula [I'm re-evaluating this though] )

[Ruairi]

In my opinion, it's wisest to gauge what guns the enemy is bringing. If they have flamers, banshees, or even hades especially in decent numbers then it will be wisest to take chemspray. However if the enemy doesn't have any fire based weapons extinguishers should be adequate. Another tip is to look at the enemy teams gunners to see what ammo they're bringing, mainly looking out for incendiary in this scenario.

[Kouhei Sakurai]

(Figured I should reply before I fly off for my grad trip.)

I've always found the chem spray better but I've seen some players use extinguishers well. Furthermore there's a few achievements that require extinguishers (thankfully progression is independent of achievements now), so I'm toying with the idea of bringing an extinguisher. I'm still keeping the chem spray on my default loadout (spanner, mallet, chem) but I have the extinguisher on my buffgi but that didn't go too well and I was wondering if it was a bad idea.

[Wolfprints]

I pretty much always bring chem spray. I will usually only bring an extinguisher if I'm on a mobula or the bottom deck of a galleon. Maybe for a spire as well.  It gives you more time to shoot, and those ships often have range builds that keep you (in theory) from taking a lot of fire for an extended period of time.

[Indreams]

I'll make an argument for Fire Extinguisher (since its clear the Spray is more popular).

Extinguisher has a short cool-down, and it completely kills the fire. The engineer can get a damaged, burning component back to near full health (extinguish, and in three seconds, a mallet). Also, the extinguisher also gives a very short fireproofing.

Chem-spray has a longer cool-down, and it only takes away three stacks of fire. If the engineer can spray every component of the ship, great. But if the engineer misses a component (because they were fixing the hull, etc.), the engineer has no choice but to let the component burn out and rebuild later. If the burning component is the hull, the ship will take heavy perma-damage.

In mid fight, the extinguisher engineer has the greater advantage by brining a burning engine/hull/balloon to full brim of health.

[Dementio]

You know, you are completely right that an engineer with chemspray has to be very cautious in terms of not missing any chem spray at all, but even though it only extinguishes 3 stacks of fire, it prevents more fire stacks.
The problem with the Extinguisher is that even if you may get rid of all fire stacks, the fire can come back immediately after it's cooldown has run out.

Do you want 20 stacks of fire forming during your mallet cooldown or do you actually want to repair the component even if it has 7 stacks of fire?

[Indreams]

Do you want 20 stacks of fire forming during your mallet cooldown or do you actually want to repair the component even if it has 7 stacks of fire?

I get your point, but...

20 stacks is hardly fair. The opponent would need to have a trifecta flame on you. Otherwise, the flamethrower will be disabled by the gunner or avoided by the pilot before the component receives 20 stacks.

In mid-fight, the component is taking damage from bullets and explosions. I'd rather get rid of 7 stacks of flame so the component isn't constantly dying. And it's too stressful to keep track of all the fire stacks between repairs and rebuilds.

The extinguisher -> mallet combo will usually (note the qualifier) keep the component alive mid-combat.

And in mid-combat, a live component is better than a dead one: a live hull will keep the ship alive, a live balloon will keep the ship afloat, a live engine will keep the ship moving, and a live gun will keep shooting.

Pre-combat and post-combat, the spray shines. Mid-combat, extinguisher shines.

Extinguisher does have its uses.

[Alistair MacBain]

One flamer and the distance to kepp it targeted is all to totally screw a ext.
A flamer needs 5 secs at max to get 20 stacks on a component once in range and arc.
And you wont be served with your ext due to the flamers high clipsize. Once your ext cd runs out you loose your fire immunity and get another 10+ stacks on several components.

The chem always shines with aware engis. The ext can only shine on certain limited positions in certain limited situations.
A ext midfight against a flamer is a dead component.
A ext midfight against a hades is a dead hull.
The firestacks will screw most of your repairs and your ext doesnt have the power to fight them effectivly.
You ext the stacks, wait for your cd to run out, repair it with a mallet and then the stacks rise again giving you a dead or almost dead component.

Ext+Mallet can't keep components alive unless the stacks rise from explosive dmg. I assume even a banshee punishs exts.

[Indreams]

This is a bad argument, but the point of the extinguisher is to deal with the 10+ stacks.

And if the component is getting 20 flames, it's dead chem spray or extinguisher, except Extinguisher -> mailet will keep it alive a little longer.

The chem always shines with aware engis.

Chem definitely shines with competent engis. But once they miss a timing, chem can't stop the fire.

And most engis probably can't keep track of sprays mid-combat. I know that I can't (but I don't have much experience. I wouldn't know how much practice it would take)

[sparklerfish]

If something is taking enough fire to get 10 stacks on it, you're not going to be able to save it with an extinguisher.  Sure, the stacks will go away, but they will accumulate again instantly, and if you've just malleted it, it will likely die while you wait to be able to extinguish it again.  Then you have to rebuilt it, and it'll instantly be on fire again.  If you miss a cycle during the heat (har har, because fire is hot, get it?) of battle and something gets 20 stacks on it, you're best off at least chem spraying it before it goes down so that it's still sprayed when it's rebuilt (chem spray persists while a component is broken).

[Indreams]

If something is taking enough fire to get 10 stacks on it, you're not going to be able to save it with an extinguisher.

That's why it was a bad argument, 

I'm actually something of a hypocrite in that I use Chem Spray over Extinguisher. But I still did what I set out to do which was

make an argument for Fire Extinguisher (since its clear the Spray is more popular).

I gotta admit that Chem is better than Extinguisher, but I'll still tell my pub match crew to bring an extinguisher; I don't trust their sprays.

[Alistair MacBain]

Exactly what sparkler said ...
The ext doesnt save you either against 10+ stacks cause either you were sleeping to let a component catch that many fires or your enemy shoots you with flamer or hades and then your ext wont save you.
Id rather give the component a spray and a mallet hit afterwards and as many as i might get additionally and have the immunity once i rebuild the component when it died instead of having a ext and getting rid of all stacks for 3 seconds and then watching them rise immidatly again.
Cause thats makes it impossible to give a repairhit.