Author Topic: Problems with matchmaking  (Read 154085 times)

Offline Queso

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2014, 03:49:45 pm »
Novice matches are there to gently introduce players to the game with a limited set of weapons and reduce stomping and frustration.

Offline Wundsalz

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2014, 04:10:51 pm »
I'll grant you the loadout limitation part, but matchmaking should be able to handle the stomping part.
I just wonder why you've decided to stick to the novice matches, as this divides our already dried-out player pool for match making.
With matchmaking in place, the novice matches seem to be somewhat redundant if not obsolete to me.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 04:13:05 pm by Wundsalz »

Offline sparklerfish

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2014, 04:58:06 pm »
I don't get why there are novice matches to begin with. Matchmaking should take care of matching new players with new players anyway.

Except it doesn't.  It mixes them together because obviously you achieve "balance" by dropping a level 45 gunner on a ship of novices...

Offline GeoRmr

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2014, 05:04:40 pm »
I don't get why there are novice matches to begin with. Matchmaking should take care of matching new players with new players anyway.

Except it doesn't.  It mixes them together because obviously you achieve "balance" by dropping a level 45 gunner on a ship of novices...

I'm lvl 1 just like you guys - honest!

Offline shaelyn

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2014, 07:18:35 pm »
hmmmmm.

yesterday I flew in a match that had a level 45 pilot and a level 1 pilot (that had only played a couple matches) together, and a couple of level 20-30 pilots on the other team.

and you know what?  the match was balanced.  it was actually a very long deathmatch - a close game.  the matchmaker seemed to do its job.

...but I'm not sure the situation served the novice very well, and I was on the ship with the level 45 captain - I know he was frustrated.  and while I'm not one to get frustrated easily at someone else learning something new, I understand when other people do.  some people just want to sit down and play - and in a teamwork-based game, they don't want to carry the whole match with half the team falling behind.  it did happen some with the old system too...but not like this.  this isn't the only time that someone's vented their frustration to me with very similar circumstances within the last couple of days, not by a long shot.

so I'm hoping fixing the cap for novices will bring more novice matches and give them a bit of experience.

the other part about that too - as a CA, it's more effective to jump into a lobby full of novices and be able to support them all.  they may not get the same kind of help scattered, especially if the rest of the playerbase is as frustrated as those that have vented to me.

:(

oh, one more point Wundsalz, I don't see novice matches dividing the player pool.  well, it does, but it doesn't hinder anything.  if there's enough novices for a novice match, then there's a lobby for them.  they'll get placed into a lobby with other players either way; I don't see the difference if it's in an all-novice lobby or a lobby that's largely more experienced players, just as long as the lobbies are getting filled.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 07:33:52 pm by shaelyn »

Offline AbbyTheRat

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2014, 09:14:28 pm »
Novice matchers have restricted loadouts to ease them into the game.

Offline Imagine

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2014, 11:00:48 pm »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your levels and matchmaking rating have nothing to do with each other.

Offline sparklerfish

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2014, 11:03:43 pm »
I'd say it's a stretch to say levels totally don't correlate at all in any way to your matchmaking rating.  I'd warrant a guess that any given level 45 has a higher ranking than any given level 1.

Offline Milevan Faent

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2014, 11:09:28 pm »
The real issue with Novice right now is there are so few players around, there will almost never be enough Novice players to fill a Novice lobby. This will be greatly alleviated when we start getting more players in during the next sale.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2014, 11:27:19 pm »
Novice matches are redundant if we've got matchmaking now. If the system is designed properly, the novices will be shifted into matches with more novices anyways. So, it is pretty much pointless to keep the restriction going and hindering the playerbase. If they end up in advanced matches then oh well. That was happening before matchmaking anyways. Many times I'd be in a match with someone who had only played a couple of games.

Shaelyn that wasn't a balanced match, that was just a normal match. Sometimes that happens. I doubt it actually balanced the players and put them in appropriate ships based on skill. That would require a modifier setup or some definition of skill that Muse has implemented. Lot of extra work when you can just make it level based and shift people about based on that.

Offline shaelyn

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2014, 08:16:24 am »
yeah Imagine, the matchmaker doesn't look at levels, it looks at skill.  while levels aren't really a good indication of skill, you take a pilot that's hit the max and you look at a player that has never played, and well, that's pretty easy to judge.

the matchmaker doesn't balance ships, it balances teams.  and it looks like matchmaker doesn't try to fill the lobby with people around a sort of bracket of skill level at all (such as the novices in a match against each other) - rather, it just seems to grab a pool of people quickly and sort out skill level where it can.  could be wrong, but that's my experience so far.

Offline Imagine

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2014, 11:06:46 am »
yeah Imagine, the matchmaker doesn't look at levels, it looks at skill.  while levels aren't really a good indication of skill, you take a pilot that's hit the max and you look at a player that has never played, and well, that's pretty easy to judge.

the matchmaker doesn't balance ships, it balances teams.  and it looks like matchmaker doesn't try to fill the lobby with people around a sort of bracket of skill level at all (such as the novices in a match against each other) - rather, it just seems to grab a pool of people quickly and sort out skill level where it can.  could be wrong, but that's my experience so far.
What I meant by that is a lvl 45 pilot queuing up as a lvl 1 engineer isn't seen by the system as a lvl 1 engineer, thus wouldn't (or, rather, shouldn't) be queueing them into a lvl 1 match, which seemed to be of some discussion here.

Offline Dementio

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2014, 11:13:20 am »
Speaking of skill: How is a novice that wins every match against novies different from a high level that wins against high level pilots or even low level pilots? What if the novice plays on the high level ship against high level enemies and wins? Would he not, according to the system, have a similar amount of skill as the high level pilot or even more since he is a lower level and wins against high levels?

I don't want to doubt Muse's ability to come up with algorithm or use already existing algorithm, but I worry that the algorithm for Matchmaking is not able to differentiate between high level & high skill and novice and high skill.

Offline GeoRmr

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2014, 11:27:42 am »
Speaking of skill: How is a novice that wins every match against novies different from a high level that wins against high level pilots or even low level pilots? What if the novice plays on the high level ship against high level enemies and wins? Would he not, according to the system, have a similar amount of skill as the high level pilot or even more since he is a lower level and wins against high levels?

I don't want to doubt Muse's ability to come up with algorithm or use already existing algorithm, but I worry that the algorithm for Matchmaking is not able to differentiate between high level & high skill and novice and high skill.

Because of maths: it does differentiate between skill level and wins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Problems with matchmaking
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2014, 03:58:45 pm »
Zomg, Muse didn't listen to really anything. First chance I had to really get into it while on this trip. Outside of custom games or events...there is no reason to play this game anymore. Good job Muse, you shot yourself in the foot...with a howitzer.