burst rounds in flamethrower

[sparklerfish]

I see a lot of people swearing by burst rounds in the flamethrower, claiming it spreads more fires, hits an entire ship, etc.  On an abstract level, that sounds like it would make sense, however, when I look at the actual numbers:

Dragon Tongue Light Flamethrower
Primary Damage: Fire 1.2
AoE Damage: None

Burst rounds multiply AoE damage by 1.5.  So, what's 0 x 1.5?

You do get a larger clip (though slower rate of fire), so you can hit more things with a single clip, but I think a lot of people have misconceptions about what burst rounds do, especially in a flamethrower, which has a wide spread on its own but is not technically AoE damage so the spread itself is unaffected by using burst rounds.

Not that I'm saying NOT to use burst rounds in a flamethrower, since a bigger clip is a pretty good advantage with the small drawback of a slower rate of fire (which is fairly insignificant with a weapon like the flamer which is gonna set a zillion fires regardless of firing a bit slower), but I just wanted to clear up that it doesn't actually HIT more things or have a wider spread.... just a bigger clip.

Unless there is secret Muse wizardry governing the flamer behavior that I'm unaware of.  xD


Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about this.

[Ultimate Pheer]

The flamer, as far as I know, has spread but not AOE.

So AOE boosts are wasted. Greased rounds would be good, though, for speeding up the fire spread.

Also good are things that boost clip size, because more fire is always better.

Lesmoks are also fun because fire just goes so much farther and none of them expect it and then their guns have too many fire stacks and they die.

[sparklerfish]

Yeah, I usually use lesmok for the range in the flamer, but if I happen to be a gunner on flamer and can bring extra ammo, I also take greased for close range for rate of fire/clip size boost.

I'm just slightly baffled by the hype around burst in flamer.

[Ultimate Pheer]

I don't get why you would use it anyway.

Even if it DID boost the Spread and Radius the flames hit... you can already light up most of... almost any ship easily. Why do you need it wider?

[sparklerfish]

Because the flamer is horribly difficult to aim, obviously. 

I actually did have a crewmate on a ship recently who flat-out refused his role of using the flamethrower because he claimed he "sucked at it".  Um.  You point it at something and hold down the mouse button.  Everything is on fire.  Not terribly challenging.

[N-Sunderland]

I've heard the devs say that burst actually does make the flamer hit more things, despite lacking AoE.

(Queso, this is your cue)

[Queso]

Yes it is my cue. Burst increases particle size. Thus more components are hit.

[sparklerfish]

Interesting, thanks for the information!

[DJ Tipz N Trix]

yeah, it's some kind of exception to the rule

[Queso]

yeah, it's some kind of exception to the rule

For those who want some juicy technical programmer mumbo jumbo, there are three major (read: implemented, functional and used) gun sub-classes (inheritance is fun!): Projectile, Raycast, and Particle (Even mines are projectiles I do believe, but they are weird and we don't talk about them because then I'm pretty much writing out game source code for everyone to see ). Some modifiers effect these in fairly consistent ways. Modifying ammo count for example makes sense in all contexts with no need for any type to handle differently. Meanwhile something like modifying arming time doesn't even make sense on non-projectile weapons (at least for now), so the system simply ignores the request to modify it. For particle weapons (of which the flamethrower is the only one present), it just handles AoE in that way because the programmers and game designer decided that it was the most consistent with other guns functionality and was how they wanted it to work.

So rather than being an exception to the rule, it simply is the rule for that type of weapon. If you were ever to see another particle based weapon (like a water cannon which I swear gets suggested like every other week) it would likely follow the same rules.

[Sprayer]

Interesting how threads concerning this topic pop up regularly. I wonder if "burst" and "flamethrower" are words too hard to type into the search?

[...]
Dragon Tongue Light Flamethrower
Primary Damage: Fire 1.2
AoE Damage: None

Burst rounds multiply AoE damage by 1.5.  So, what's 0 x 1.5?
[...]

Also, the burst description nowhere states the AoE damage is boosted by 1,5 (which would make buffed burst LJ OP) but the actual Area of Effect is increased.

To mister lvl5/1/1 there (whose ignorance I actually do find excuseable):
The closer you are to enemy ships with your flamer the harder it becomes to burn litterally every component at once. So you either can focus on one component to add as many firestacks as possible, sway your aim and spread the stacks out so all components burn but take less damage than one or two would or use burst ammo and aim at your primary targeted component and hit more/every component while not loosing too much dps on the primary.

[Buchou]

I remember reading somewhere on here (sorry, can't remember exactly where) that the flamer has an AoE radius purely for adding stacks. The AoE damage is 0 upfront, but is useful for adding stacks of fire around the target. Burst increases the range of the AoE so I'd assume it would enable you to light an entire pyramidion on fire, for instance, by aiming at the centre, due to spread and AoE combined. 

[HamsterIV]

I was contemplating burst flame throwers recently and a question came to mind:
Could a larger AOE flame particle stay on a target longer thus causing more stacks as it passes?
Say this Ascii art represents three normal flamer particles over three updates with * being a component
( )   ( )   (*)
  ( )   ( ) *( )
    ( )   ( )* ( )
And this represents burst ammo over the same three updates
(  ) (  ) ( *)
  (  ) (  ) (* )
    (  ) (  )*(  )

The * is calculated as a hit in more updates. I know muse stated that one component can't be hit by the same projectile twice in the case of balloon damage bleed through, but that is a single hit calculation done on one update tick. Can a flame particle do a hit on the same component twice in different update ticks?

[sparklerfish]

Also, the burst description nowhere states the AoE damage is boosted by 1,5 (which would make buffed burst LJ OP) but the actual Area of Effect is increased.

Sorry, I misspoke about the multiplier, but since there is no AoE damage listed at all, I figured that burst would not affect it.  If there is no AoE damage, it can't have a radius, can it?  I was corrected and appreciated the information.  You don't need to be rude or condescending.

Even if it's a distance modifier and not a damage modifier, I still was unclear on how you could place any sort of multiplier on an AoE of *nothing*.

[sparklerfish]

Interesting how threads concerning this topic pop up regularly. I wonder if "burst" and "flamethrower" are words too hard to type into the search?

Also, I tested your theory by typing those exact words into the search, and found no relevant threads.

Sorry you find my curiosity inexcusable.

I wonder if "burst" and "flamethrower" are words too hard to type into the search to first confirm whether doing so is even remotely helpful before being rude to someone with a question?


edit: I stand corrected.  I found one mention in one of the very LAST results in the search.  SO SORRY TO WASTE YOUR TIME WITH A THREAD ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED.  I am deeply sympathetic to the amount of time you lost in your life by voluntarily clicking a thread and reading it.

Also, the post I found was old, and I know that the flamethrower has been changed many times, so I wouldn't have had any idea if that were still accurate or not.