Author Topic: Tar and Sandstorm engine damage  (Read 7569 times)

Offline Nemoder

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Tar and Sandstorm engine damage
« on: May 13, 2014, 05:27:15 pm »
A recent patch reduced engine damage from Tar and it seems it isn't being used very much anymore. 
I thought a good idea would be to make the engine damage from Tar and Sandstorms scale based on how fast the engines are spinning. 
This way you could turn off engines and sit in the cloud and not take any damage until it passes or you could move slowly and only take a little damage until you are clear of it or you could plow on through busting the engines entirely and worry about fixing them later.

Offline Crafeksterty

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Re: Tar and Sandstorm engine damage
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2014, 07:09:34 pm »
Currently they are a hazard no matter what.

Your suggestion is pretty cool, but a maybe complicated to implement as of now.

If it were implemented, then i would allow for full speed to damage even more than it does now, while not having them on full speed will do no damage.
But, as a question have you tought of the weapons? Will they be destroyed? Because you only mentioned for the engines.

I like how it is currently, but would be a pretty cool element of having to run the ship in 1/4 of full speed in order to avoid too much damage.

Offline Nemoder

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Re: Tar and Sandstorm engine damage
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2014, 02:54:53 am »
I hadn't thought of the guns too much but it could be the same mechanic where they take more damage if they are firing while still in the cloud.

Offline Kanja

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Re: Tar and Sandstorm engine damage
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2014, 07:52:16 am »
One compromise would be that the guns take the same amount of damage as before but the engines takes 0.75 times the current damage while being shut down, so you have an option to quickly repair the guns first, then engines, if an ambush would follow.

Offline Realder

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Re: Tar and Sandstorm engine damage
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2014, 04:11:47 pm »
I can understand Tar smoke damages engines but how does tar smoke damage guns? What logic is there to that? I can give the engine damage cause they suck unpure air in them and all that but GUNs? Can we insert some logic here? Or is the logic that the oily smoky tar gets in the guns moving parts and jams them? All right i can see that to certain point but currently the damage is insane. In my opinion the tar gun damage is way too high.
It is a cool idea you can use the tar smoke to harm your opponents and hinder their pursuit but the dam scale is way out of proportion. Remove the gun damage completely? Reduce the gun dam to 20% of the current? Im i alone thinking this is out of balance?

Offline JaegerDelta

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Re: Tar and Sandstorm engine damage
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2014, 07:13:37 pm »
I can understand Tar smoke damages engines but how does tar smoke damage guns? What logic is there to that? I can give the engine damage cause they suck unpure air in them and all that but GUNs? Can we insert some logic here? Or is the logic that the oily smoky tar gets in the guns moving parts and jams them? All right i can see that to certain point but currently the damage is insane. In my opinion the tar gun damage is way too high.
It is a cool idea you can use the tar smoke to harm your opponents and hinder their pursuit but the dam scale is way out of proportion. Remove the gun damage completely? Reduce the gun dam to 20% of the current? Im i alone thinking this is out of balance?

realistic? defs not. but out of balance? im not so sure.

Tar requires a very specific set of circumstances to be of any use. you have to have your engines facing the enemy, the enemy has to then stay directly behind your engines for an extended period of time, and you have to be moving in such a way that you do not move into your own tar (and hopefully keeping the enemy in it).

the second requirement is key. your enemy has the ability to just move out of the way (rather easily if they are running hydro or vent). if they dont move, grats, you will probably kill them and have just saved your and all your crew's lives. but a smart opponent will pursue you at the edge of their gun arc so they dont get tarred but can still shoot you, functionally making it a dead tool.

its a risk/reward kind of thing. if you opponent doesnt know how to deal with it, its great. if they do, you are now movement tool down.

Offline Deltajugg

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Re: Tar and Sandstorm engine damage
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2014, 07:20:24 am »
I just want to clarify something

A recent patch reduced engine damage from Tar and it seems it isn't being used very much anymore. 

Quote from: 1.3.6 Update - Tar Changes
Reduced engine damage to 20 damage (from 25), Increased Cloud Duration to 35s (from 30), and Increase Cloud Damage to 15 Shatter/s (from 12)

Reduced engine damage means that it deals 5 less damage per second to YOUR engines when YOU use it, same way you damage engines with kerosene, phoenix claw etc. so that's actually a buff for Tar Barrel.

Increase Cloud Damage is where an actual value of the cloud damage to enemy's engines (or yours if you fly into your own cloud) is found. Damage from the Tar Barrel has been increased by 3 Shatter damage per second, and with Shatter damage having a 2.0 ratio against both Guns and Engines they take additional 6 damage/s so that's another buff for Tar Barrel for you.

Makes you think that if you damage your engines less AND you deal more damage to people in the cloud people would actually use it more, especially that there was also a bug fix for the Tar Barrel damage, where it now always deals damage at the end of the tick, while it didn't always do that before. The only actual change for the Tar Barrel that could be considered a nerf was a change of the cloud animation that people complain about, like it's expanding in a weird way or something. I personally have a problem with the cloud not showing up immediately after using the skill. I get my engines damaged, but I can't see the cloud being made behind me. Other than that, it's all buffs for the Tar Cloud.

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: Tar and Sandstorm engine damage
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2014, 08:44:32 am »
It wasn't all buffs because they turned it from a reliable escape tool that was moderately used to an unpredictable weapon that is hardly used outside of just trying to tar everything.

Offline AscendantWyvern

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Re: Tar and Sandstorm engine damage
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2014, 09:04:31 am »
I like the suggestion about the less active the equipment is, the less damage it takes. To extend on the OP, why don't the guns work the same way? That way, it's less "easy camping" and more "strategy". Using minimal adjustment to keep your ship alive while making attack difficult for the enemy.

Offline Neithrantulre

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Re: Tar and Sandstorm engine damage
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2014, 06:42:02 pm »
Guns could take damage based on current speed, and engines on throttle setting. I actually thought sand worked like this at first because its intuitive, I would just sit still in a cloud because I thought it would do less(lol). You could moonshine right before a cloud and drift through it taking only gun damage, or you can go slowly through it and take minimal damage to everything.

I would like the quiet anticipation of sitting still with no visibility and no engine noise while you HOPE the enemy doesn't know where you are.

Offline JaegerDelta

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Re: Tar and Sandstorm engine damage
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2014, 08:52:08 pm »
Guns could take damage based on current speed, and engines on throttle setting. I actually thought sand worked like this at first because its intuitive, I would just sit still in a cloud because I thought it would do less(lol). You could moonshine right before a cloud and drift through it taking only gun damage, or you can go slowly through it and take minimal damage to everything.

I would like the quiet anticipation of sitting still with no visibility and no engine noise while you HOPE the enemy doesn't know where you are.

the sand storms are not clouds though. they are storms. the wind is whipping the sand around and that is what causes the damage (by gunking up your moving parts). really it probably would follow the same principles as running/walking in the rain. It depends on alot of variables, but generally running allows you to stay more dry, similarly speeding through the storm would generally make less sand get into your engines and guns.

even if you were to turn off your engines the damage would still be done. you could not turn your engines back on (or have your guns in proper working order) until they are cleaned out. as the game is just a simulation of what would really be happening (and for the sake of gameplay it is not a very accurate one), your engines and guns take damage to indicate the severity of the sand clogging and you hit them with your repair tool to simulate cleaning them out.

the same principle would govern tar clouds, but slightly differently. presumably the tar clouds have large amounts of soot that would gum things up in a similar manner to sand. and further more the smoke would probably choke out your engine making it harder for the internal combustion to take place (and yes they are internal combustion not steam as some people believe, why would moonshine or kerosene affect a steam engine)