Author Topic: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches  (Read 57447 times)

Offline RomanKar

  • Member
  • Salutes: 14
    • [SAC]
    • 18 
    • 34
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« on: June 23, 2014, 05:16:57 am »
I think in all Tournament matches a ship list with full gun load out should be messaged to the ref of a match before the lobby is opened, after map is communicated. 

I have seen matches where teams just have to give up switching at some point, and "being the better man" shouldn't lead to being hard-countered. 

Offline GreyTea

  • Muse Games
  • Salutes: 54
    • [Muse]
    • 32 
    • 45
    • 44 
    • View Profile
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2014, 06:22:33 am »
Or the ability to see a ship/crew load-out of the opposite team removed in private games? Am not sure how easy that would be, but i have had a few people suggest it,

Offline ramjamslam

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 63
    • [SAC]
    • 35 
    • 45
    • 38 
    • View Profile
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2014, 07:31:59 am »
Maybe there should be a 'locked in' option in private matches, or just when you hit 'ready' you can't change the ship loadout.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 144
    • [MM]
    • 31 
    • 44
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2014, 09:13:49 am »
Or the ability to see a ship/crew load-out of the opposite team removed in private games? Am not sure how easy that would be, but i have had a few people suggest it,

Then you roll the dice and pray they don't take something that will hard-counter you. I think that's too heavy-handed.

Offline Sammy B. T.

  • Member
  • Salutes: 154
    • [Duck]
    • 23 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2014, 09:37:37 am »
When we were coming up for the rules for hc we discussed whether we wanted rules concerning this. In the end we decided the two minute tuner time limit in the lobby was sufficient as not readying is a disqualification

You know what would be super cool?  If private lobbies could have someone start a variable count down till force start.

I definitely do not like being blind. For my old junker knowing if the enemy was bringing pyras meant changing my carro banshee for a gat mortar.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 09:42:42 am by Sammy B. T. »

Offline RearAdmiralZill

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 144
    • [MM]
    • 31 
    • 44
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2014, 09:52:58 am »
When we were coming up for the rules for hc we discussed whether we wanted rules concerning this. In the end we decided the two minute tuner time limit in the lobby was sufficient as not readying is a disqualification

That rule is fairly overshadowed by the requirement of captains being in lobby 10 minutes prior to start. Then one would have to "hide" their load-outs until the 2 minute timer starts.

That said, locking yourself into a load-out via a rule also carries the potential of getting countered, so its a double edge.

The only thing that annoys me is when teams will change their ships 10 times for no apparent reason, so maybe a limit to how many times a team can change ship load-outs would be a good compromise? Make it a big decision rather than the mini-game it seems to be.

Offline Shinkurex

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 102
    • [MM]
    • 45 
    • 20
    • 43 
    • View Profile
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2014, 10:00:22 am »
Should a rule like you're suggesting be put in place, then the advantage would go to the team who gets to change their loadout last.... I do like Grey's idea of just making ship loadouts unviewable for private matches (he's also an inside man, so could probably get us an answer on how easy this could be done). If not, if you're trying to combat this part, it's going to be better to just say ships are locked from change the moment you log into the lobby.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 144
    • [MM]
    • 31 
    • 44
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2014, 10:16:09 am »
I'd like to think competitive teams have more than one build to work with when it comes to tournament play. Sure, you give the advantage to the team that doesn't change first, but that makes the choice that much more important. You can't simply keep countering each other until one team gives up. You have to think about your change and consider what the other team may do. I'd say 3 changes. Lets teams totally swap, and have one extra. (I'm also referring to ship/gun changes only. Crew load-outs aren't a big deal)

Being locked will just suck if you happen to bet wrong and you take a galleon to an art-y party.

Not knowing would also suck, cause then you'd have to try assuming builds, only to hope you didn't just get hosed. I think it would take away from the creative builds we've seen.

Offline Dutch Vanya

  • Member
  • Salutes: 107
    • [Clan]
    • 38 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2014, 10:18:53 am »
Oh is there a problem when people switch from one pyramidion meta to the other?

Offline redria

  • Member
  • Salutes: 136
    • [OVW]
    • 16 
    • 31
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2014, 10:21:10 am »
I will be making a thread at some point towards the end of HC for discussion on good/bad/thoughts on how HC went to help revise the rules if a second season is in order, or to help the next event if the scene moves a different direction. This is naturally one of the things that would come up.

One potential way of handling it would be that one team locks one ship, the other team locks their ships, then the first team locks their final ship.

I think part of the reason pyramidions and junkers are the most popular ships is simply due to them being pretty good all-arounders. You can take them into any match and have a pretty good shot at not being "hard" countered. Other ships face more counters, making it a greater risk to take them into a lobby where your opponent will see it and potentially switch to counter it. A system for locking loadouts would potentially help more ships flourish in competitive, though recent days have at the very least seen more goldfish put to good use in HC even without hardline rules.

Always interesting to hear new ideas. This is a tough subject because no matter what, either at least one ship will get final choice or teams will be blind (which leads to generic builds). Luckily, so far HC seems to have seen pretty good variety without too much posturing and countering in lobbies.

Offline Imagine

  • Member
  • Salutes: 59
    • [MM]
    • 19 
    • 33
    • 22 
    • View Profile
    • Twitch Stream
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2014, 12:29:38 pm »
Or just don't choose loadouts that are easily countered.

Offline Sammy B. T.

  • Member
  • Salutes: 154
    • [Duck]
    • 23 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2014, 12:59:17 pm »
I'm not saying that ship swapping doesn't happen in HC, I am saying it doesn't result in a lobby going on for 10 minutes. I think changing ships based on what the enemy is not only fine but something to be encouraged and since the changing ships screen is kind of bulky (not conducive to amazingly fast changes I've seen teams get burned before) its a huge risk to pull off stunts.

Let em bring whatever and int he end if a team tried to do a fast swap and fails, you reap what you sow.

Offline Dutch Vanya

  • Member
  • Salutes: 107
    • [Clan]
    • 38 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2014, 03:16:00 pm »
Or just don't choose loadouts that are easily countered.
That's how you end up with all the boring meta ships we see now.

Offline Imagine

  • Member
  • Salutes: 59
    • [MM]
    • 19 
    • 33
    • 22 
    • View Profile
    • Twitch Stream
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2014, 05:27:40 pm »
Or just don't choose loadouts that are easily countered.
That's how you end up with all the boring meta ships we see now.
But meta changes constantly. Whether it's gun balance changes or people figuring out new ways to fly or such, we see meta changes on a regular basis.

And if you do want to bring something not immediately meta, it's up to you to figure out how to make it work. That's how meta changes.

Offline DJ Tipz N Trix

  • Member
  • Salutes: 20
    • [♫]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2014, 06:31:24 am »
Or the ability to see a ship/crew load-out of the opposite team removed in private games? Am not sure how easy that would be, but i have had a few people suggest it,

Double blind is how all the fighting games/smash bros tourneys do it.  Alternatively there is the MOBA style drafting, but with 2-3 ships per team instead of 5 heroes, that might be pretty shallow.