Fellow Ex-Gunners Of Icarus Lend Me Your Ears!

[FailCtrl]

It's simple we kill... uhm I mean buff the ammo types. Make sure the ammo types really make a difference at different ranges/guns/targets etc. That would bring up the need to change ammo drastically. Say there is an ammo type that bring up the range of a weapon to long instead of medium and medium instead of short with reduction of dps = usefull on long ranges bad at short and then an ammo that does the opposite.

Conclusion: Make the ammo types more different, maybe one can increase how much you can turn your cannon? and buff the effects on them while changing (not lowering) some of the side effects to gain dps when using the right ammo at the right range/target/gun

[Moriarty]

I think we're at a good place with ammo generally, but your right insofar as something needs to be done about the 'weaker' ammo types - the worst of which are Heatsink (good for flares) and Incendiary which is largely useless (tho i will concede to Shink it is fun on a carronade).





 

[Pickle]

I think we're at a good place with ammo generally, but your right insofar as something needs to be done about the 'weaker' ammo types - the worst of which are Heatsink (good for flares) and Incendiary which is largely useless (tho i will concede to Shink it is fun on a carronade).

Heatsink is a functional ammunition, and does at least go some way towards making two Gunner crews viable.  It's the Gunner's version of chem spray.

Incendiary is also useful with the Gatling.  Just something else to throw into the mix when the enemy has checked your loadout, seen no flamers or banshees and assumes there will be no fire problems.

[Moriarty]

you don't think your wasting your time with them? After all if you were an engi you could buff your gat and put out your own fires.

It just seems as if we have to contort ourselves to find a use for them. I'd also be tempted to put greased rounds in this category as well - my chats with the gat/mortar crowd suggest they've bailed on it in favor of lesmok and a buff hammer.

[Pickle]

It's important that there is variety in the tools available.  It's a good thing hat some players think some tools are less useful than others.  It's what supports a wider range of game styles, so we don't all end up with cookie cutter FOTM builds.

What does it matter that greased rounds have fallen from favour now? - I'm sure they'll be popular again if you wait a while.

Heatsink clip might not be something you think useful - perhaps someone else does. I generally expect my Gunner to carry it, because no Gunner should ask for their gun to be extinguished twice.

[N-Sunderland]

Why would you want your gunner loading heatsink when they can load an ammo type that boosts damage output while they repair their gun? Fire isn't enough of a threat to guns anymore for heatsink to be worth it at all.

[Pickle]

Why would you want your gunner loading heatsink when they can load an ammo type that boosts damage output while they repair their gun? Fire isn't enough of a threat to guns anymore for heatsink to be worth it at all.

I'll often put the noob on guns in a PUG.  If they're struggling to balance repairs with damage output I want an easy option to suggest to them when up against a flamer-heavy opponent.  It's probably a holdover and I haven't adjusted to the many changes Eric has made to fire damage.  But it is the easy option when you've an inexperienced crew.  And I'm sure fire damage will be adjusted at least once more before the end of the year.  It doesn't seem to go five minutes without tinkering to the mechanics of it.

I'm certainly opposed to any suggestion that heatsink is useless and should be disposed of for something with more universal cookie-cutter appeal - which appears to be Moriarty's shout (and yours Sunderland?).  There should be weaker and stronger tools, some that only work with one or two weapons and some that work with all.  Perhaps even some that until you really think about it don't appear to work at all, or only work synergistically with other crew members tool choices.  More tools and greater diversity of tools encourages experimentation.

[Calico Jack]

Why would you want your gunner loading heatsink when they can load an ammo type that boosts damage output while they repair their gun? Fire isn't enough of a threat to guns anymore for heatsink to be worth it at all.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the 3 engie concept - but I have a feeling that the recent changes to chemspray and fire ext have something to do with its popularity. And with an engie even if you buff the guns you still only have 1 ammo type.

[N-Sunderland]

I'm certainly opposed to any suggestion that heatsink is useless and should be disposed of for something with more universal cookie-cutter appeal - which appears to be Moriarty's shout (and yours Sunderland?).

I think it should be made more viable in some way, but not by making any changes to ammo itself. Fire just needs to be made better for disabling guns, since as it stands it's very rare to see 8-stack fires on them. Back when fire disabled in one stack (I'm not really advocating a return to those mechanics, but maybe a reduction in the number of required stacks is in order), heatsink alone was enough to justify the use of gunners.

Why would you want your gunner loading heatsink when they can load an ammo type that boosts damage output while they repair their gun? Fire isn't enough of a threat to guns anymore for heatsink to be worth it at all.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the 3 engie concept - but I have a feeling that the recent changes to chemspray and fire ext have something to do with its popularity. And with an engie even if you buff the guns you still only have 1 ammo type.

I wasn't talking about three engineer setups there, but a one gunner setup where the gunner has, say, heavy-greased-heatsink on the gatling. You could load heatsink to stop your gun being damaged a bit, but you'l have way more of a benefit from just repairing through it and loading, in this case, greased rounds or heavy (depending on the range).

[Calico Jack]

I wasn't talking about three engineer setups there, but a one gunner setup

ahh ok  - but heatsink for example makes a good mid range round for the lumberjack with the added plus that it has extra rounds.

[Moriarty]

I'm certainly opposed to any suggestion that heatsink is useless and should be disposed of for something with more universal cookie-cutter appeal - which appears to be Moriarty's shout (and yours Sunderland?).  There should be weaker and stronger tools, some that only work with one or two weapons and some that work with all.  Perhaps even some that until you really think about it don't appear to work at all, or only work synergistically with other crew members tool choices.  More tools and greater diversity of tools encourages experimentation.

Universal cookie-cutter appeal : Is it fashionable to have obviously broken things taking up space or something? Tools need to be functional, and competitive with the other tools otherwise they never get chosen for the job.

Lets run through some of the ammunition in question:

Heatsink
Flare Gun use excluded, Heatsink is uselessas things stand - Though i remember the days when it was quite useful - all I'm saying is atm it sucks, and taking it is a mistake...and you should feel bad.

Incendiary
Same story - though you shouldn't feel bad for taking it, after all you've already decided your not playing to win - and all the power to you!

Greased
You me and everyone else wants it to work, especially for the light mortar...only you never really need it and it comes off kinda gimmicky - but man it's fun to fire.

Now I believe eventually Muse (awkm) will get around to giving each ammo a useful roll - its just that atm there is no reason to take any of the abovementioned ammo. 

[Pickle]

What I'd like to see are a dozen or more tools of varying utility for every profession.  Because every so often a seemingly minor change in an update has the entire tool dynamic on it's head because someone realises that a little regarded too that's been ignored for months suddenly gives a huge advantage.  Back when the Lumberjack first had it's arming time added there was a sudden scramble to find ammunitions that slowed the projectile.  Heatsink was suddenly FOTM with lumberjack gunners.  Who knows what the next patch will bring.  There needs to be the diversity of tools beyond the cookie cutter appeal, and beyond the absolute number-crunching of the <1% of players who play competitively.

Moriarty, some of the ammunition types you've listed have usefulness beyond the numbers.  The psychological effects of even small fire stacks are significant when you're playing in the PUGs and that can make incendiary a viable choice for a gatling.  The advantages of greased rounds on the mortar at close range aren't just down to the absolute damage numbers - because it's not how much damage you can do in a second that counts.

And amongst the PUGs, a Captain is not always wanting to choose the absolute optimum loadout.  Sometimes you're spending twenty-plus matches just working with the optimum loadout dictated by your current active achievements.  Because you've had the same achievements running for too long and you'd like to get onto the next one.  Flying a suboptimal weapon choice then has you looking for optimal ammunition that might not be used that often in high-level play.

If you only play high level matches and never chase down an achievement, ignore all of the above.

[RearAdmiralZill]

All of this is assuming you are using a gunner, not 3 engineers.

Heatsink
Flare Gun use excluded, Heatsink is uselessas things stand - Though i remember the days when it was quite useful - all I'm saying is atm it sucks, and taking it is a mistake...and you should feel bad.

Any gun with an arming time will appreciate the benefits it provides at shorter ranges.

Incendiary
Same story - though you shouldn't feel bad for taking it, after all you've already decided your not playing to win - and all the power to you!

Flamethrowers, carronades, and gatling to a lesser degree, since the gunner typically isn't on gat. Oh, Mines like it too.

 

Greased
You me and everyone else wants it to work, especially for the light mortar...only you never really need it and it comes off kinda gimmicky - but man it's fun to fire.

Depending on the range you plan to engage at, gatling and mortar love greased. Also fun on a LJ.

I don't particularly care what the "new meta" is. If you have 3 engies, sure I can see potential merit in your argument. With a gunner, no.

[Moriarty]

I would like to point out just in-case it was any doubt, when I used the word "you" I meant it as 'you the reader', inclusive language and all that, and was not intending to single out Mr Pickle.

[Moriarty]

Normally you put forth a good argument Zill but i think you struck out here.

Heatsink for arming time you have to know that's not the best solution

Incendiary for carronades and mines - Sure if your playing PUBs and want to have some fun - otherwise this is madness

Greased for LJ is just weird, I can see the light mortar argument but I think we'll see a shift away from the light mortar gunner thus proving me right.

Now you might have noticed I've given you no solid arguments just basically 'your wrong' - Unfortunately I'm conflicted as you play the Raft this Saturday so I wouldn't want to help correct any defective opinions you may or may not hold