Author Topic: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4  (Read 29088 times)

Offline Pickle

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #60 on: March 01, 2013, 11:45:19 am »
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We will make more specific information available in future level unlocks.  The change to the UI is the most friendly for new players.  For y'all advanced players, yeah it's not the most useful.

I was referring to this quote Hubert Pickle.

EDIT:
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And yes, players with less intelligence will struggle - or rather, lazy players that don't investigate the community or pay attention to readily available information will find themselves disadvantaged.

I hadn't seen that comment from Awkm, but tbh if Awkm got around to fixing the weapons table on the main website (which I think he admitted breaking himself)  the data is there available to all anyway.  He's only talking about a UI change, I don't think there is any weapon/ship performance data that's not theoretically available to all at the moment - has to be in theory until the website gets some attention.

However I agree with you that any change to the UI (including level of detail shown) should be an optional change available to all players regardless of their current level.. Awkm is (I think) the only member of the Muse team who has chosen to over-write his actual game levels with the impossible to achieve L99 across the board.  I'm hoping that Clara or one of the other will reign in any L33T changes he might implement on the UI.

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To fix the problem of lazy players, all ya have to do is implement the little explanation text into the old gun stats. "Hello all, I know ya don't want to research about the Hellhound, but that's OK! It's short range and kicks some major butt against the balloon, guns, and engines!"

That information is available now - between the current UI and the website.  Again, it's a matter of fixing the website data.  The website's currently so out of date it might be a different game.

Offline Captain Magellan

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #61 on: March 01, 2013, 12:02:46 pm »
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I hadn't seen that comment from Awkm, but tbh if Awkm got around to fixing the weapons table on the main website (which I think he admitted breaking himself)  the data is there available to all anyway.  He's only talking about a UI change, I don't think there is any weapon/ship performance data that's not theoretically available to all at the moment - has to be in theory until the website gets some attention.

Sure, all the info is out there, but seriously, should people have to go and hunt down info on some website? Why not just easily combine all the information right there in the game? All you have to do is combine the text explanation with the old numbers and everybody right there playing the game is pleased.

And an option to change the stats would be fine too but not as effective, because you would have to inform new players that the option is there.

Offline Pickle

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2013, 12:15:11 pm »
Sure, all the info is out there, but seriously, should people have to go and hunt down info on some website?

Yes.  Life isn't a special needs group collective failure hug.  Sometimes you'll have to get off your ass and go find out stuff for yourself.

Offline Captain Magellan

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2013, 12:24:21 pm »
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Yes.  Life isn't a special needs group collective failure hug.  Sometimes you'll have to get off your ass and go find out stuff for yourself.

You're right, life isn't a special needs group collective failure hug. BUT THIS ISN'T LIFE. It's a video game. And the people who don't have the time, or are wise enough to know they shouldn't spend most of their free time researching and playing this game should be able to quickly access the information they need to kick my little "can't get off the computer" butt. You don't need experience to beat people (though it helps), you need information and a good plan. People who just have the time to play one or two games a week should be able to get in the game, think "OK, so front shot gun to destroy balloon, left gatling to strip armor, right flak to blow 'em away" and see it work.

Offline awkm

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2013, 12:43:48 pm »
Sure, all the info is out there, but seriously, should people have to go and hunt down info on some website? Why not just easily combine all the information right there in the game? All you have to do is combine the text explanation with the old numbers and everybody right there playing the game is pleased.

And an option to change the stats would be fine too but not as effective, because you would have to inform new players that the option is there.

You want to work for free?  Do you have programming experience?  Do you have UI experience?

I know I sound like a jerk but that's the place we're in.  This is a terrible answer but you'll just have to deal with it for now.  The format right now is the easiest to understand for newbies.  Since y'all are dedicated enough to want it, you'll just have to look it up for now.

Like I've said before, we're going to offer the additional info at higher Gunner levels as a level achievement in a similar format as the manual.

That's the best we can do for now.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2013, 01:23:00 pm »

You want to work for free?  Do you have programming experience?  Do you have UI experience?


Not that I am volunteering, but hypothetically if someone answered yes to those three questions would you let them run willy nilley through your source code?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 01:25:45 pm by HamsterIV »

Offline Ccrack

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #66 on: March 01, 2013, 01:23:09 pm »
wait, you going to offer additional info for higher level gunners?..

as a pilot i think that its just as important for me to know as much about the guns as the gunner does.

the new layout for the guns stats does make it easyer to understand at first glance, but i would like to see some numbers in there with it like the weapons actual range instead of just '' far range''  though saying that its more of a minor annoyance than anything and i would much prefer you to spend time ironing out bugs n such, especialy that super slow mo  bug in the 3v3 games

Offline Captain Magellan

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #67 on: March 01, 2013, 02:26:39 pm »
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You want to work for free?  Do you have programming experience?  Do you have UI experience?

I am sorry, I assumed something would be easy when I have no where near the experience you do. Forgive me, I stepped out of my bounds.

Though just to be honest, doing that (the above quote) would be pretty awesome. I'm in high school and looking to get into programming and I've been thinking about maybe volunteering at a local computer repair shop. Would it be alright if I directed an e-mail at you guys asking for some advice about things I should study, how competitive the game design business is, and the like?

Offline awkm

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #68 on: March 01, 2013, 03:58:45 pm »
Okay let's lay off the UI related stuff in this thread as it has nothing to do with balance.  Please address it in the Feedbacks sections.

Offline raubtier

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #69 on: March 01, 2013, 03:59:16 pm »
New updates are in.


Hwacha (Previously hot fixed)
- Decreased AoE (6 from something crazy like 14)

Rocket Carousel
- Reduced AoE ( 3 from 8 )
- Increased Reload Time (6 from 4.5)
- Decrease Rate of Fire (2 shots/s from 2.8/s)

Lumberjack
- Decreased Arming time (0.8s from 1.2s)
- Increased Muzzle Speed (275m/s from 250m/s)

Harpoon
- Decreased Reload Time (4s from 5s)
- Harpoon Duration Increased (15s from 10s)
- Max Harpoon Length Increased (600m from 450m)
- Decreased Pull (40000N from 60000N)
- Changed 2nd Dmg (60 Piercing from 100 Shatter)

Other
- Flechette vs Armor Decreased (0.35 from 0.5) Data Entry Error in Last Update, this is the intended change.

I think these changes look good. Thank you Muse-Team for your effort.

Offline awkm

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #70 on: March 01, 2013, 07:10:44 pm »
Muse Clara (Jess) just notified me that someone thought I was inflammatory.  If you don't know me, I'm blunt and I'll give it to you straight.  I personally don't think it helps to dress things up for you (high-level players discussing balance) because y'all get it—we're all here discussing advanced topics.  I don't mean to intimidate anyone.  So I apologize if I frightened anyone.

To clarify, there are a lot of things that we can do to make the game better.  Everyone is on point with a lot of the suggestions you make.  However, a lot of the time we can't turn them into actionable tasks because we're burdened with other stuff like fixing server lag and other game breaking bugs.  So yeah, I'd love a toggle to to get those real numbers in there.  We had it before, but it made no sense to newbies without the proper context or experience.  To us it all makes sense because we get it, we intimately know the feel of these guns.  They're our babies.  We know when the babies are hungry.  We know when they're about to poop.  We know when they're tired and want to go to sleep.  We know when they're misbehaving and need a good spanking.

And if you didn't know me, I'm batshit crazy and run with metaphors.  I guess it comes from looking at balance spreadsheets all day long :P

Offline Mattilald Anguisad

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2013, 07:24:21 pm »
Aww but like pooping the ballons with harpoons (pun intended ^_^). No more of that?

Offline Kevin of Zhufbar

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #72 on: April 02, 2013, 02:34:06 pm »

How to fix unbalanced teams in AM


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Here was an idea I had for fixing unbalanced teams in AM. Since in the AM pre release trailer Muse said that 16 people would enter the world at a time. I have 2 separate ideas.
                    1. Have 16 people in the world as in guild wars. Then have enemies balanced to your level.
                   2. Have a number of people per faction in the world but have them be auto selected to be the same-ish levels of skill unless invited by a friend. So everyone in the area would either be randomly chosen based on character/ship level (there should also be a way to invite friends.

     Just some ideas.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #73 on: April 02, 2013, 02:46:12 pm »
Question about AOE dammage:

You mentioned earlier that if a component is destroyed the damage is transferred to the hull. What if an AOE from a single hit catches both the hull and a destroyed component. Does the damage get doubled? That is the hull takes a hit from the AOE then the component transfers its destroyed damage to the hull as well. Also what happens if two or more destroyed components are are in the AOE?

Offline awkm

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #74 on: April 02, 2013, 04:13:01 pm »
Question about AOE dammage:

You mentioned earlier that if a component is destroyed the damage is transferred to the hull. What if an AOE from a single hit catches both the hull and a destroyed component. Does the damage get doubled? That is the hull takes a hit from the AOE then the component transfers its destroyed damage to the hull as well. Also what happens if two or more destroyed components are are in the AOE?

Something can't be hit more than once.  We have checks in place for that.