Author Topic: <Development Discussion for VIP Event> Project Red Skies  (Read 2787 times)

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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<Development Discussion for VIP Event> Project Red Skies
« on: April 01, 2014, 05:40:51 am »
Our members have seen this, and the Aerodrome participants have seen this. Now I'm bringing it to the rest of you as talk about doing a VIP event is rising.

The ideas for Red Skies sprang from the Aerodrome event's scorekeeper system. All of these ideas for a VIP event are early stage and in need of input & refinement. Yes there will be problems, yes there will be reasons to disagree.

I want to be sure it is known that this event is only in concept form. Whether it happens or not, I dunno yet. At the very least I want it to provide a good discussion on new community driven events.

I've already told a few people that if they want to run with the idea, they can do so. One of the original intents of Aerodrome was to encourage more story driven events in the community. To see others attempt what Aerodrome did. Because frankly, our guys want to fly in them. As much fun as it was developing, managing, and seeing the event take place, at the end of the day our guys said next time they wanted to find a way to play too.

That said, I decided to write down the ideas that came to mind during Aerodrome and I laid them out as if we were going to develop it just in case we ended up wanting to. All of it is of course up for editing, debate, refinement, whatever.

Aerodrome:
Red Skies

What is it?:

This is a summer special storyline gametype tournament.

Goals:

-New Storyline based on Guild/Arashi/Mercenary conflict
-Utilize Scorekeepers to invent a new gametype in GOIO
-2v2 gametype utlized
-Faction control of match card or more involvement by clans in event management?

Basic Backstory:

The conflict between Yesha and Anglea has drawn interest from southern factions and mercenary groups who want a piece of the action.

The truth of the profits the Bully Boys made from the Aerodrome conflict is leaked. Wealthy Guild gun merchants are looking to make their own cut by inciting conflicts in other areas of the world.

Arashi tribes catch wind of this and rally their own forces to stop it.

Mercenary bands, seeing the potential money to be made, are rallying to either faction.

Weekly Narratives:

The story will not be as core to the gameplay as Aerodrome. Each match will not have narration done but the narration will be for the entire day as a whole. So say Arashi overall scores higher on the day, narration will be made to reflect that Arashi is a thorn in the side of the Guild.

Mercenary teams will be grafted into either faction so they’ll be eligible for the final battle.

How do the matches work?:

There will be 2 gametypes in this event.

-VIP
-TDM

Maps:


-All 2v2 maps, except CP

Sadly there are no Guild/Arashi based maps in the game to make the event more realistic so you'll just have to pretend you are flying over Guild lands instead of over frozen Fjords.

VIP gametype:

This gametype involves a hunter/prey mindset. One side is the hunters, the other side is the prey. But there will be a special prey that is marked the VIP target. Killing this VIP target will give the hunters bonus points.

If the prey are successful in repelling the hunters, the prey steal the points. Points are say...blood money, war profits, etc. Isn't important as long as they go towards helping one faction beat the other.

Scoring system:

1 VIP kill = 10 points
1 non VIP kill = 5 point
Prey team Victory = 50 points

Example:

Arashi: VIP Killed 3x = 30 points
Non VIP Kill 2x = 10 points
Guild: Non VIP kill 3x = 15 points

Total: Arashi = 40 points, Guild = 15

A complete 5-0 VIP kill only = 50 points Hunters.
A 5-0 Prey Win = 75 points Prey

Say it is a 5-4 match, prey win.

Prey team = 75 points
Hunter team = 20-40 points depending on who they killed

So the event favors Hunters actually hunting their targets and maximizing points. Hunters that can’t hunt, risk losing more. Prey that can successfully repel and overcome the hunters, get extra points.

May revise this to balance more. But do want Prey to get a little benefit for fighting at a disadvantage. Also so Hunters learn how to maximize kills and prioritize.

TDM Gametype:

TDM will have a similar scoring.

1 kill = 10 points
No bonus points for victory

Time Limit:

Both gametypes have a strict 15 min match length. Want battles to be fierce and tense. Hunters sitting around sniping from across the map at a VIP target doesn’t work with the story. A smart VIP would flee while the hunters are sitting around sniping.

If a match goes to 15 mins, the match is called and the winner decided based on current points.

If a tie happens, teams get a two minute overtime to score the final kill. Still no kill? Match just ends a draw and points tabulated.

Also want a fast match setup so we could potentially squeeze in a lot of teams. Moving to 2v2 would promote this and we’d ideally want to be able to get as many matches in during a time slot as we can.

Deciding Who Plays Who:

This is a problem that needs to be addressed. Think we should keep it simple as 2v2 draws more players. Do a rotation where teams at least get to face each other 2-3x before finals.

Faction score and individual team scores will be kept but will go on more of a scoreboard and will not influence who plays who. So top teams could face off against weak teams and vice versa.

Guess lets figure this out. Say we have 4 teams and we use a rotating setup…

1

    2

3

    4

Week 1:

1 vs 2
3 vs 4

Week 2:

1 vs 4
3 vs 2

Matches continue to move in that rotation till the final week.

Final Battle Concept Idea:

First ever 4v4 competitive match in tournament play. Possible best of 3.

Top 4 teams from each faction select 1 boat to enter into a 4v4 VIP battle royale. The faction that scores the highest, gains pick of whether to be the hunters or the prey.

The top scoring team for each faction is then the VIP or leader for their group. In a best of 3 series, the teams would swap from hunter to prey each match so the winning faction would only gain the advantage of deciding the opening battle.

This could be accomplished with a 3v3 finale but as 3v3 has been done and 4v4 hasn’t, it would be better to do 4v4.

Faction Members Control:

This is an idea brought up at the Community Chat. I’m still thinking about how it could be done.

Problems I can think it would bring in is disagreements between who plays who. Who controls the match cards. Then of getting the next week match list resolved.

Only possible way I can think to rectify this is match cards ran by 3rd parties who aren’t participating. But even then this might be something that just isn’t doable. I need some ideas for this to determine if it is plausible.

Due to the size of the event, this might only be plausible for another 3v3 Aerodrome.

Faction Controls VIP selection:

This is an idea that could be possible. What happens is there is an initial TDM day where the first skirmishes take place.

The point totals recorded from that are then submitted to a global scoreboard which gives kills as well as points. The losing faction of one week, would have a limited time to place bounties on opposing teams, hence, make them VIPs.

There would of course be a limit. You can’t have 2 VIPs on the same team. So basically it comes down to the factions trading off between hunting and being prey. The losers get to place the bounties for the coming week.

Now I can see some problems with that but the basic idea is a start to make it possible for clans to actually participate in the event’s organization.

Ideally we want to make a system where both sides can experience being the VIP so refinement on this idea is needed.

Prizes: Faction badges? Note this means Muse has to take time to make them. So there would be a delay. Other ideas?

Offline redria

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Re: <Development Discussion for VIP Event> Project Red Skies
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2014, 10:56:13 am »
Role play backstory
Back pedal to the time before the Yeshans and Anglea were at war. There is peace in the land, though uneasy. The Guild and Arashi tribes simultaneously see a chance for safe profits: incite the 2 factions to war and sell war supplies to both. Each faction see openings where a single infiltrator can turn peace to war, and where having their own infiltrator will push both the Yeshans and Anglea towards trading with the same supplier. The Guild and the tribes send 2 ship teams to transport an infiltrator to key points in Yeshan and Anglean lands, along with 2 ship escort teams to ensure the only infiltrators will be their own.
Every match is a battle between one infiltration team and one escort team. One ship, the VIP, is carrying the infiltrator. Destroying this ship makes it harder for the infiltration team to succeed. Destroying the escort team makes it harder to prevent a successful infiltration.

In the end, everything hinges on one location. Each faction sends a full 4 ship squad to fight for control of the location for long enough to infiltrate.

The winner of the 4v4 successfully incites the war between Yesha and Anglea, while simultaneously securing exclusive trading rights with both factions. The winning faction reaps massive profits over the course of the war.

In the future, due to its superior wealth and power, it hosts a series of games, the faction games, where teams from all factions are invited to come play. The faction games would have some sort of structure naturally, but the underlying theme is that the host may set certain rules for each round, such as only close range or only long range. Only mine launchers. All harpoons. Etc. The hosting team gets something of a free pass for part of the tournament, but must participate fully by the end. The games go horribly wrong and fights break out everywhere. One team breaks through and slaughters the leaders of the hosting faction and makes off with the riches (or if the host wins out, they successfully quell the riot).

Winning faction is the next to host the games. Rinse wash and repeat. Boom - olympic games of icarus between the 5 factions.

Concerns with your event
Will there be rules about the marking of the VIP ship? I'm imagining 2 identical ships both named "VIP" so that the hunters literally can't tell which ship is their prey.
Points seem to heavily favor the hunted. Seems like a slight balance issue.
How will points be divided in a tie if the main points for the prey come from winning? Could a team take double squids to fjords and hide for 15 minutes to force a tie and "win" by not dying and get 50 points?
Who plays who - This depends on how many teams sign up, how long the event runs, and whether you want teams to play each other twice so each can play both roles
===Possible interesting note. Create "groups" of 2 teams each week in accordance with my backstory. They are matched against a similar 2 team group. Each group independently decides who will infiltrate and who will escort. The matchups are revealed and teams play each other. This allows teams that enjoy hunting to request to hunt, while teams that enjoy infiltration can play that more. -> max points possible must be equal for each to encourage teams to play their favorite, not just fight over the one giving most points

Prizes
The 4 best teams on each faction send one ship to the final 4v4. The 4 captains of the winning faction get to sit in as rulers of the games for the next olympics of icarus, creating rules and stipulations.

Offline redria

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Re: <Development Discussion for VIP Event> Project Red Skies
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2014, 11:01:54 am »
As a fun aside with my backstory, you could let an Arashi and Guild ship from one match team up together on the same map and fight against an anglean or yeshan patrol. First to 2 kills wins and if you are forced to respawn, you may not participate in the battle -> arashi and guild ships are mid fight and see a patrol. They band together to take out the patrol before the patrol can report back to base. Each ship is given one life. If the patrol is taken out, the team from each faction gains points. If the factions ships are taken out, the team from each faction loses points.

Both factions know that if they are discovered, Yesha and Anglea might work together to crush both factions for inciting war.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: <Development Discussion for VIP Event> Project Red Skies
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2014, 07:35:43 pm »
Here is the problem with going into any kind of official backstory too much...we virtually have none. Only speculation. This is the problem the VN team has been dealing with for months and why I've tried to get a sitdown with Eric. Now that doesn't mean we can't invent some. Aerodrome's story was invented and tailored to the event by not only TTR but by the teams participating. If we ran Red Skies it would have a similar story design, being a prequel isn't a bad idea. It would also give our guys reason to participate. Wouldn't matter if its a win or loss as we'd have gone on to incite the Anglean/Yeshan war.

Olympics idea is interesting. Will make note of this.

Yeah of course there would be rules for VIP marking. One ship would have to have a VIP tag on it. If there is a bounty placing then the VIP would be known in advance.

Its a good note about the 0-0 tie game. What we could do is, in the event where no one scores in 15 min + 2 min over time, and a tie comes down...then its just a wash match, no points as there is no victor. The hunters succeed/fail and the prey escaped. But as the prey was unable to score either then it means they had to retreat.

Problem is there could be a few matches where that happens. Only way to maybe offset that is to make it so if its a wash, hunter team gets the victory and gains some points. Say, a small payoff. They didn't kill their target but they prevented it from advancing. Maybe 25 points awarded to the hunters.

Could also give the hunters a bonus for victory in a match. However, I think an overall balance tipped favoring the prey is helpful as the prey are fighting to protect which is harder. All the hunters have to do is focus fire down the target. The prey have the harder time protecting and defending. But, that could go the opposite. Tropo is thinking about doing some trial runs of this and other VIP ideas so maybe when we see it in action we'll see what works and what doesn't.

Now of course the prey could take something like a squid and just run for 15 mins. Which means the hunters would have to bring speed and disabler loadouts to catch and lock it down. We'd also have to make some rules about exploit zones. Canyon Ambush has some where you can just get in and hide forever. So say someone jumps into one, they have 1 minute to leave it or their team forfeits the match.

Mentioned who plays who in the doc. Its just a simple rotation. But someone could do whatever they wanted with it if they wanted something more complex. If your going to do that then your going to not want to run a story as it would be a bit much to narrate and tell the stories of each team in a 2v2 event. Something like that is doable in 3v3 but the sheer number of teams in 2v2, nah.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 07:38:07 pm by Gilder Unfettered »

Offline redria

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Re: <Development Discussion for VIP Event> Project Red Skies
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2014, 08:32:37 am »
Sorry, I guess it wasn't really clear. I don't mean for the backstory I presented to lead to anything official/cannon. Nor would it be something where specific stories are created around each encounter. It is more just an idea to give some flavor and rational behind a VIP situation. Because in just a flat out battle, there won't be a VIP (unless its is the flagship?). I wanted to be able to say that a ship needs to be taken out because of something.

Offline Velvet

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Re: <Development Discussion for VIP Event> Project Red Skies
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2014, 02:38:18 pm »
This is interesting. The aerodrome was fun and a continued tradition of competitive events with a focus on narrative and fresh ideas would be a nice change from win-at-all-costs TDM tournaments.

my thoughts on VIP balance:

Maximum points on a Hunter win: 50, and realistically it will be close to 35 or 40 as a couple of kills will probably not be on the VIP.
Prey always get 75 points if they win.

You say this compensates the Hunters' natural disadvantage - I would contend that the rules actually favour the Prey even if you ignore the maximum points gain.

The Hunters' objective is in direct conflict with tactical considerations. They have to focus down a specific target - even if the non-VIP is left vulnerable the Hunters are incentivised to ignore the opportunity because an unwanted kill can decrease their points gain. This puts the Hunters in a tactically sticky situation where they have to make difficult choices and decide between 2 unwanted possibilities
The objective of the Prey is the intuitive desire to avoid allowing your ship to die, which is not really a change from normal gameplay. The Prey only need to try to win, and they have the added option of taking advantage of the rules to minimise their opponents' points. The Prey can just play the game like any other, focusing the target that the situation necessitates which I think gives them a clear advantage.

I think forcing the Prey onto a defensive footing is a great idea. However I think it may be difficult to achieve that just through the scoring system. It might work to give the Prey a significant points penalty for every VIP death, forcing them to play to the same limitations and considerations as the Hunters. Or instead - or better, as well - you could apply loadout restrictions, for instance force the VIP to fly a Galleon*, Spire, Goldfish, Squid or Mobula and possibly restricting the Hunters to more offensive ships like the Pyra or Goldfish.

*perhaps not a galleon. But they are nice big targets so would be pretty vulnerable to focus fire, and if the Prey took some kind of penalty for letting their VIP die it would make people very cautious about using these things to tank which might create an interesting dynamic.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: <Development Discussion for VIP Event> Project Red Skies
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2014, 05:56:55 pm »
Hmmm, points penalty. Now thats an idea. I likes the way you think :D.

Noted! Oh and btw, need the Gent's playerlist from Aerodrome so I can submit it to Muse. Just you guys and Merry Men atm.

Offline Velvet

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Re: <Development Discussion for VIP Event> Project Red Skies
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2014, 06:28:55 pm »
um, we kind of just let anyone who was online at the time pitch in. I'll see who I can remind. ^^
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 06:37:56 pm by Velvet »