Author Topic: Proposal: Newcommers tournaments.  (Read 4258 times)

Offline Phores

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Proposal: Newcommers tournaments.
« on: June 27, 2013, 06:00:21 am »
I was thinking about this for a while but hit a few problems with it and was wondering what the interest would be like.

Essentially, whilst the Cogs and cEsports push at the high level play, getting on the ladder seems quite unapproachable (the cEsports document looks like a technical report not a guide to how to get involved/link in (also from what I understood is a bit long reaching)).
All current tournaments, even just competitive play beyond the one match, are liable to be quickly mobbed with far more experienced groups, forcing out those with interest but not the super high end playstyles and team. I was thinking of organising smaller scale "just for fun" tournaments for newer players as a stepping stone or "minor league".

Basic concepts:

  • Cap on "skill" level:
     Awkward but I was considering something like no players above level 5. Needs work but something needs to be put in to prevent high end players and the same teams continually returning, winning and pushing newcommers away.
  • Small teams:
     I'm hoping to devise a system to allow a single 4 man crew compete to keep the entry barrier as low as possible but the game simply isnt designed around 1v1. Currently considering Elo.
  • Guildwars style "flux":
     Mix things up, again to prevent stagnation and promote the "just for fun", small rules changes for each tournament/match. Things such as: "sudden death" timers by referee (winner declared as highest score at X time regardless of final match score if it continues); gun/ship restrictions to mix up the meta; a temporarily lowered level cap to draw in newer players; Fixed loadouts (either secret pre-submission or select from pre-built layouts) etc.
  • Short cycles:
     A major point here is getting the time from signing up to end of tournament as small as possible, 1 month is probably the limit on how long the tournement can go on for (sign up during previous one). The whole point I'm trying to get is the idea of rapid small scale competitions to help with player retention and give a greater sense of progress/meaningful battles rather than the detached battle and reset we currently have (with achievements and levels on the side). Adventure mode will definitely help with this but its a fair way off.

With some automation small tournaments could be automatically generated and played through in a single day (matter of a few hours for small 4 team setups) but in the mean time something to act as "an intoduction to competition" would fill the fairly wide gap we currently have between "non-begginers" matches and the E-sports level play.

Feedback/interest gauges appreciated.

Offline Kyren

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Re: Proposal: Newcommers tournaments.
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 06:15:03 am »
That's a wonderful idea! Good of you go get involved :)

The best place to get people interested here is probably ingame though; because here on the forums the majority of players are well experienced already and would easily exceed the Level 5 rule. There'd need to be promotion ingame and on Steam probably to catch people who haven't played that much or not cared about getting their Achievements higher.

As you've maybe seen on the other Tournaments, it's often a problem to even just get a full ship with 4 players - Maybe beeing more loose here and allowing AI Crew, or restricting the ships to Pilot, Engineer, Gunner + 1 AI Engineer could do the trick here to get the required number of players.

And, the longer the Tournament takes the more difficult it will be - even with the above rule - to keep all the players aboard. Consider that less experienced players are less likely to stay with the tournament and crew for so long because they might not be so well connected with each other yet.

For this kind of Tournament I'd even suggest a ship based approach.. Captain's sign up their ship and replacement pilots, and at the end there's checked which ship won the most matches and which people served aboard that ship. Might be a bit of a hassle to write it all down, but screenshots at the matches ends should suffice.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 06:41:44 am by Kyren »

Offline Phores

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Re: Proposal: Newcommers tournaments.
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 06:40:31 am »
 Yeah, the inclusion of newer players would mean heavy advertising ingame, though for organisation and ideas I value the more experienced players views.

Single ship is what I'm leaning towards (permitting AI crew if they want/need) but systems for it are a little clunky in group matches. I've seen a fair few people grab a 4-pack to play with friends (how I got in) and the short tournaments should offer some incentive to keep playing passed the initial new game buzz; at least help those who do stick find new teams and people to play along side once their initial friends group drift away.

Offline Skrimskraw

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Re: Proposal: Newcommers tournaments.
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 07:10:56 am »
would you be interested in a league that makes new teams and casual teams play eachother, and let the elite and try hard teams play eachother?

Offline James T. Kirk

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Re: Proposal: Newcommers tournaments.
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 09:38:36 am »
To make it feel a little more professional, we're going to need a referee, like you said. But what might also be useful would be "Team Captains," where the 5 cap is removed for one predetermined Captain per team.

Each Team Captain would be under other restrictions that don't apply on other players, like no piercing or double explosive weapons.
This would cause each Team Captain to not just go out on his own and get all the kills, but force teamwork amongst the other two newbie Captains (I envisioned this a 3v3).

If done correctly, it could show some of the new people the importance of multiple ship roles and teamwork, both on your own ship and among the team.

I haven't put much thought into the cons, but I'm sure you guys already have a few in mind.

Offline Imagine

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Re: Proposal: Newcommers tournaments.
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 10:53:23 am »
I know there was a low-level tournament that was being organized at one point but haven't heard anything about it in a couple of weeks, so I'm sure there'd be some interest in it.

Offline Skrimskraw

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Re: Proposal: Newcommers tournaments.
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 01:34:54 pm »
yea itwin talked about, however we havent seen him since he was on vacation and never followed up, so it's free hands on beginners tourney.

if you need help phores, just ask.

Offline Pickle

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Re: Proposal: Newcommers tournaments.
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 01:37:49 pm »
I'm hoping to devise a system to allow a single 4 man crew compete to keep the entry barrier as low as possible but the game simply isnt designed around 1v1. Currently considering Elo.

You don't need 1v1 for single-crew competitions.  There is a very simple format for this being developed as a single-event contest that could be completed in a couple of hours.  The 2v2 format (four crew mini-league) is about to be tested to confirm the scoring system, the 3v3 format  (6 crew mini-league) which would permit CP/KOTH as well as DM is under-development but probably some way off.

Offline Phores

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Re: Proposal: Newcommers tournaments.
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 03:49:39 pm »
would you be interested in a league that makes new teams and casual teams play eachother, and let the elite and try hard teams play eachother?

Can't quite tell if that was meant to be a slight or not...
 If it's about casting and how people view it, a lot of people watch minor leagues just for the difference and breaking things up a bit. High end games in sport tend to see a handful of ways of playing with only minor variants and can get quite dull, lower end play you see a lot more risks taken and experimentation.

Also low end doesn't mean casual, I wouldn't be surprised if some serious competition came about from some of the games, the point is more about getting newcommer to "wet their feet". The idea of the seperate tournaments makes it possible for people to get on the ladder without just getting stomped as they would in the major contests (hence in real life you see under 18's and under 21 teams).


You don't need 1v1 for single-crew competitions.  There is a very simple format for this being developed as a single-event contest that could be completed in a couple of hours.  The 2v2 format (four crew mini-league) is about to be tested to confirm the scoring system, the 3v3 format  (6 crew mini-league) which would permit CP/KOTH as well as DM is under-development but probably some way off.
Not sure I quite follow, is there a link to this somewhere? (Another reason to wish for a community scenario editor :p)

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Proposal: Newcommers tournaments.
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 05:19:34 pm »
Problem is stirring up interest in competitive events among new players. Many aren't that committed to the game yet to want it, and the others are likely so casual that visiting a forum is next to committing some form of heresy on their internet lives. The serious ones would get right on watching the vets play and it would likely turn into a pro match anyways. But it is worth a shot if you can find enough newbies wanting it.

Offline James T. Kirk

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Re: Proposal: Newcommers tournaments.
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 07:58:07 pm »
I just said this on another post, but we need a news ticker on Main Menu.