Goals and Ramifications of Matchmaking

[Captain Smollett]

Well I had a lot of concerns about ship scramble before it was implemented however by the time the community feedback was worked in we wound up with what I consider a really successful and enjoyable system.

I'm hoping this well turn out similarly.

Just a few questions.

Will the system allow me to run a 3 engineer crew when queuing up solo?

Will the system allow me to run a ship with an engineer captain?

How easy or difficult will it be to convey to my crew what load outs I think are optimal.

What happens if the match starts before I'm ready (wrong ship, build, load out, crew comp etc.).

[Dev Bubbles]

@Smollett!  Thanks a lot.  I'm really excited for you.  I live pretty close by to your new work, so I can try to swing by  

1) Yes
2) Yeah you can, the system will use a default crew composition like Eric said.  But in match lobby, you can adjust.
3) It should be easy.  In the pre-match lobby, you'll just chat and talk to your crew. 
4) Then the match will start in match making.  So the one thing we can test for is when is the max time we should allow for for match readiness. 

Thanks a lot!  Howard

[Thomas]

Suppose I have some of my own questions while you're on a roll:

1. Is there just one skill level for your account, or is it different for each of your roles? (So would my pilot skill level be different than my gunner skill level?)

2. Is the win/loss of points related to my personal skill level, or the average of my team?

3. If someone drops mid-match, will that affect their skill level in a negative way?

4. If someone on your team drops mid-match, will that adjust the skill level of the team and you'll lose less points if your team loses?

[Tropo]

 Is there just one skill level for your account, or is it different for each of your roles? (So would my pilot skill level be different than my gunner skill level?)


this is a good point because i would be in the top end of gunning and piloting lets say top 100 players or some thing

but as a engineer i would be equal with a new player skill wise or low ability

[Omniraptor]

I think removal of the 'ready' button is a bad idea. When you're flying with experienced players or clanmates, setting up a ship takes around 10 seconds, i.e. "alice is front, bob is top deck, charlie is bottom deck. You guys know what to take". Everyone selects the appropriate tools and after a quick double-check we're good to go.

However when paired up with a new player you may want to explain (depending on level of noobishness) what different tools look like, how to hit customisation complete, how the repair/buffing mechanic works, repairing/chemming/rebuilding/shooting/targeting/buffing priorities, etc etc.

The third option is to say 'herp derp just take whatever you guys want i dont care and will probably crash into a wall anyway' which I've also seen a fair bit of.

Ideally matchmaking would accomodate all three captaining styles.

P.S regarding skill, for the love of all that is holy make sure this skill is a hidden value, because it leads to all sorts of unpleasantness when people can see it, including but not limited to refusing to play to 'preserve their rating'.

[Dev Bubbles]

@Omniraptor,  actual values will definitely be hidden.  And I would flip the argument is say that the ready button is a bad idea.  There are a ton of reasons, match start time, equity in time desired to prep (leading to always the longest possible wait time until people get impatient or leave, which then leads to even longer start time), etc. But the worst of it is that it puts the burden of a system on the players, and this is bad from a community standpoint as well.  And considering the time needed to prepare and strategize for different skill level is a good point.  I have to confirm with Jerry and Eric on how the system currently handles this, but it's a good point. 

[Dev Bubbles]

@tropo and thomas, let me defer the skill level calculations to Jerry and Eric because they have more in depth knowledge than I do.  But I'm pretty sure you're on the right track. 

[Sammy B. T.]

Will there be the option to join on players?

[N-Sunderland]

Will there be the option to join on players?

I'm pretty sure they said earlier in the thread that there will be.

[Thomas]

I'm pretty sure you can join your friends, but I'd assume you'd have to do it before they enter the matchmaking. I believe there was a mention of no longer being able to join matches in progress, which is why I brought up the AI stuff too. Being able to join your friends mid-match would only be capable of happening if players leave the game in progress. Both players leaving and players joining would skew the skill rating for a team by a lot.

[Tropo]

with some of the above comments sounds like you might as well make it a pissing match and call it cod 6 or some other crap and start new game for all the little kiddies that don't have patience

there must be a way to merge both idea with out change the base geographic of the players

ready button
match list
join game in motion

and if we are having all this crap i want a kick button because some people don't listen would rather not play with them

[Dev Bubbles]

@tropo, I have already articulated the  drawbacks of the current system and with the ready button.  If you have a concern about potentially not having enough time to ready for example, sure that's a valid concern.  If you disagree, and think that you would like us to consider any merit that the ready button has, you're welcome to articulate it.  Otherwise, it's really hard for me to know how to respond to address your concerns. 

Also, if you think that an attempt to design a system that will try to address issues with wait time, imbalance, performance, etc. is crap, ok, you can opt out of it.  You do not have to use match making.  Like Urz pointed out, you do not have to use match making at all.  If there is then an ease of use concern with custom match, then we can try to figure out what that is and work on a better solution.  If you do not want to participate in testing, that's also fine, you don't have to at all. 

I'm really not trying to be defensive or confrontational, but I would appreciate it if you can at least consider the pros and cons, look at what we are trying to do and understand by maybe trying it out once, before you just dismiss everything we are doing as crap.  I've never dismissed or disrespected anything you said, and I hope that I've always listened and considered your feedback.  I'm just saying it would be helpful for me if we can at least have a civil debate and understand your issues clearly so we can note it and think it through. 

Thanks a lot, Howard

[Omniraptor]

Bubbles, could you explain what you mean by 'putting the burden of a system on players'?

IMO The ideal way of accommodating different prep times is simply to handle the prep before being paired up with your opponents. That way every team has as much or as little time as they want to prepare.

The best way to implement this is probably to have a system of two tiers- team formation, and then matchmaking between different teams.

For example, once the user clicks play button, they pick a map to play on and are put into 'crew formation', where 8 people gather together and make a coherent team of ships for that map. Once both captains on the team click the ready button, the game pairs them up with another team on the map and the game begins.

The problem bubbles seems worried about is if everything works as I just described, and two captains of different skill are put into the same team formation, one ship will have to wait for the other. I think it's a worthy tradeoff because it's easier to organise 8 people than 16 people, and because it's a necessity for fun gameplay- ships need to be tailored to each other.

The other problem is that you can't tailor your team towards your opponents, but some of the best comp teams have shown there's no real need to do that anyway

I think this two-tier system the best compromise, because you absolutely HAVE to have ships that work well together, or else nobody will ever fly specialised ships such as squid or spire. However, you also don't want to wait for your opponents to ready up, and it solves that issue.

[Tropo]

so with what you just said there could be a pyra/pyra vs squid goldfish  which would get stomped

[Dev Bubbles]

@Omni, oh I mean that, in the current system, the readiness of a match is completely reliant on the individual players.  And because everyone's mindset, needs, are variable, then to start a match is completely negotiated between players.  This system creates an inherit burden on the players.  So the system doesn't do anything or do its job in helping the players get into a match, there is no mediation, facilitation, or anything. So that burden of mediation or facilitation is passed onto the players.  If conflicts arise because of this, which it quite often does, it is actually the system's problem.  The match making system is multistage, so there is prep time.  Yeah the time it takes to prep is definitely something we look at. 

Thanks!