The Bounty Season

[Thomas]

I paid more attention this time around to the Bounty Season than I normally do, and I've noticed some issues beyond the [Wanted] tags (please discuss that particular topic in the other thread).


First is the point system. Bounties earn points by winning matches, while Bounty Hunters get points for defeating bounties. Something new I learned this time around was that Bounty Hunters can only claim each bounty once, as opposed to farming them for points. Interestingly, bounties can actually be bounty hunters as well (go figure); although of course they are at a disadvantage because they cannot claim their own points (I'm here to turn myself in, do I get the reward?), but I think that's pretty acceptable.



The next is the extreme lack of activity from the bounty sign ups. About halfway through the season, half of the bounties didn't have a single win. I can't be sure if they had signed in during that time, but I want to believe that if they did, they could get at least one win. At the end of the season we had:

2 Players with more than 100 wins
5 Players above 50 wins (3 between 50-100)
13 Players above 20 wins (6 between 20-50)

and

30 players with 0 wins

(All the 'above' categories includes everything above it as well.)

This is out of 75 players who signed up. Only 17% of the players signed up got above 20 wins, and 40% of the bounties didn't even show (or at least didn't win any).


This makes it difficult for players who want to win bounty hunting points, but can't find any bounties.



There should be a system in place for more bounties to be put into the system. Such as, if a bounty isn't active for more than 36 hours, they get removed from the bounty list, and their slot opens up. (Although the bounty season is pretty short, but 24 hours seems a little too intense).


There's also some pretty large divisions in the scores, but there's not a lot that can be done about that; and is mostly related to how active a player is.


Thoughts? Other suggestions?

[Milevan Faent]

Personally, I wanted to be able to put Bounties on other players, and was extremely disappointed with the whole Bounty system when I found out how it worked, since it was such a cool concept. If possible, I'd want to even put bounties on clans, but clans aren't really supported properly yet, so that's not gonna happen regardless. Really though, the kind of Bounty system I'd want would require more like what I think Adventure mode is suppose to be.

That said, I agree with your suggestion as a first step to fixing the system.

[Urz]

Am I the only one who feels like the bounty system has outlived it's relevance?

[Dutch Vanya]

Am I the only one who feels like the bounty system has outlived it's relevance?

It can use some changes, but i do think it adds just one more interesting thing to focus on while playing this game.

[Thomas]

Kinda-sorta. It's mostly enjoyable, but it was a much larger part of the game back when the community was small. Now-a-days most players aren't even aware of the Bounty Season, even with the big ol' [Wanted] button.

I do like having something like around, but it'd be nice if there was some way to polish it up and make it even better.


A lot of players thought I was [Wanted] because of my skill level. Perhaps we could tie it into that? Certain top players over a week or two are selected as bounties and try to stay on top. Being beat puts their score back down, while continuous wins makes their point value go higher. Of course you'd probably have to remove them from the bounty hunting side of the equation.


Perhaps expanding it to include some sort of prize even if you don't come in first. This might involve a complete do-over of the system, where the points actually act as currency. During the bounty season, the bounties of course sign up in advance and try to gather up wins. While bounty hunters try to take them out for points. These points could be exchanged for in game 'goods'. Such as exclusive event costume pieces. You'd either need items that are 'consumable' or temporary, or a fairly decent variety for players to keep coming back. Otherwise like now, once they get their prize, they stop caring as much. (maybe 2-3 sets for bounty hunters and bounties; each piece taking a lot of points to redeem, and resetting at the end of the season).



In the end these are just random brainstorms. I think I wouldn't miss it all the much (although the completionist inside of me still wants to get the bounty hunter badge). I think it could be turned into a nice gateway into the competitive scene. Probably not automated, but capable of displaying current team standings in the various competitions, maybe a schedule, and of course basic rules/how to sign up.

But that's mostly me trying to push for more in game clan support (of which I will have another large post for later).

[Dutch Vanya]

Please keep up all the well written posts filled with great thoughtful ideas about how to make this game better, you seem to be very good at it, and i always seem to agree with you.

[ramjamslam]

I wanted to be able to put Bounties on other players ... If possible, I'd want to even put bounties on clans...

No thanks and hell no!  I don't think you should be forced to participate in a system you didn't sign up for that has people chasing after you for 2 weeks.

In melding some of Thomas' points together I am interested in a more fluid system where people can sign up any time and play as a bounty for a while earning some sort of bounty point currency to spend on store items; maybe even bounty exclusive hats and costumes.  I would like this better than the play as many matches you can for 2 weeks and maybe get a badge system we currently have.

[Milevan Faent]

I wanted to be able to put Bounties on other players ... If possible, I'd want to even put bounties on clans...

No thanks and hell no!  I don't think you should be forced to participate in a system you didn't sign up for that has people chasing after you for 2 weeks.

In melding some of Thomas' points together I am interested in a more fluid system where people can sign up any time and play as a bounty for a while earning some sort of bounty point currency to spend on store items; maybe even bounty exclusive hats and costumes.  I would like this better than the play as many matches you can for 2 weeks and maybe get a badge system we currently have.

I think you completely misunderstood me. If I had my way, the entire system would be COMPLETELY different. People would earn a currency and be able to use that currency to place bounties on people (with a cap on how big a bounty you could place, and obviously you'd need to have the currency to place the bounty). In order to make a bounty worth it, you'd need multiple people placing a decent amount on someone, or a very rich person placing a maxed out bounty. Then, bounty hunters would be people who go after them. There could be various ways to get bounties otherwise, but really the system would need something more like what I think Adventure mode will be.

What I want is a system where people get bounties from their actions, and not just a very boring mini-game with no good motivation to participate. Right now, even if they offered a good reward for getting to the top of the bounty list or being the top bounty hunter, I'd still feel no motivation to participate. Now, if the top bounty was the top bountry for a REASON (say, for participating in wiping out a town), THEN I'd be all for hunting them down, cause that's cool. I WANT to be a bounty hunter, but the current system gives me no good incentive to bother trying to play "hardcore" for 2 weeks, especially as the reward is mediocre at best.

There was a system like this in Wizardry Online, and I loved it, but I couldn't get any friends to play the game with me, and eventually I lost interest in the game as a whole. A bounty system can be totally awesome, but only if it's actually a bounty system, not a poorly designed mini-game.

[Dresdom]

What if instead of getting points by winning matches the enemy team could place a bounty point on an outlaw ship while in the commendations screen?

The currency is very interesting but problematic. We need:

-A currency
-A way to obtain it (victories? kills? commendations? achievements?)
-A befenit to make it valuable (unlock outfits? ship customization? Get achieves?)
-A reason to be outlaw
-A reason to make people want to spend it in bounties.
-A reason to bounty hunt.
-Balance it all

Let's say this currency is obtained by commendations. Let's call it Prestige.

Being an outlaw could make you gain more points, a kind of high risk-high profit choice. Maybe each kill an outlaw makes stoles some Prestige points from the killed ship. So at the end of the match you can place a bounty on an outlaw ship to make sure he has trouble onwards.

The problem I see placing your own bounties is... Who get the bounty? The fisrt hunter to take him down? Then bounties are going to be fleeting. Anyone who kills the ship? Then we are "multiplying" bounty points.

[Thomas]

Wizardy Online!? Thomas smash! Thomas SMASH!!! *flips a table*

I... I'm sorry, I blacked out there for a second. I've actually played that game and was on the criminal side. It was not the best of times. Although it is the first thing I think of when considering a system where players put bounties on other players.

The fundamental flaw in the system is that you need to have some motivation for putting a bounty on a player. Even in that game, (at least in the early days) there was no real motivation. You'd have to spend your own currency to try and get players to go and hunt down a particular player who wronged you, for no other benefit than satisfaction. The system was hardly used except for vanity. The criminals liked seeing how high their bounty could go, and often did so by having friends put the bounty on them. For everyone else, there was no real point in spending any currency to put a bounty on someone.

Next, that system only worked on criminals that wronged you (murder/theft/attacked you directly). In GoIO, players don't get to make that right vs wrong choice. There's no "red" players because there's no crime system. Players sign up to take on that role. Essentially you'd be telling other players "Hey, go beat this guy up." What would qualify as a good reason to put a bounty on someone? What would stop someone or some people from putting a bounty on a newer player or not very skilled player repeatedly just to troll them? Why put a bounty on a high level player? Why spend your money like that at all?

Finally if there was a currency system where players put bounties on each other, you'd have to have a way of earning that currency outside of bounty hunting. Do you get it for winning? For just playing? Would there have to be things to spend it on outside of the bounty system? How much more content would you need, and continue to need to keep players interested in the currency? Would you be able to eventually buy everything and just keep stocking up on money for no reason, or would there need to be a 'money sink' to slow that down? And if there are other ways of earning currency, you get back to 'why spend your precious monies on placing a bounty?'


Although Dresdom did a much better job of summing that all up. Although the issue with putting a bounty on a 'ship' results in some problems as well. Ships are dynamic. Players come and go, captains change. Essentially you'd need to place it on the captain, and then we're back at square one of putting bounties on individuals.

[Milevan Faent]

Yeah, I know what I would like to see isn't likely to ever happen, it's just what I would WANT from something like this concept.

[Caprontos]

Adding more depth to the system would be nice..  and this post is entirely full of probably bad ideas but...

I also sorta dislike the fact that if you don't play starting day one and play a lot it becomes very unlikely you can even win.  And unless your top you get nothing.. so no point in actively trying unless you plan to put in a lot of time up front. Which is why I don't even bother..

What it needs in general is more reason to want to play it.. The currency idea could be thing. If I could obtain some in game item for just participating each season (eventually) then I would maybe more like trying.. not to win but to earn something. I might even sign up if I would get some benefit from that (I already know I don't play enough to win most likely.. so why try?)..

Perhaps just keep it low scale and.. every-time you beat a bounty you gain 1 point.. once per bounty per season like now... And if your a bounty then you gain one point every 10 or so matches you win in a row (this way being a bounty can gain you more points, if you can win multiple times in a row.. but not be to broken.. I think? may need some balance).

Then make some purchase-ables like hat/costume/badge that are separate from a "winning" prize.

Eventually though we will own all these items.. so then what?.

Lets assume you guys do add a proper clan system.. and add in clan benefits (like maybe customizable ships (cosmetic only of course).. or something).. You could make it so you have to pay for it with these points.. That way everyone in a clan has to donate and fund these types of clan "benefits".. So they could be kinda pricey..

Another thing could be a costume piece that you can let people add a logo to.. (maybe the trench coat? since it has space..).. Some people might like that.. That is paid for with points to put the logo on then each person has to buy one with points..

Another option is to let players make "prize" matches.. where the game is worth x points, so if it is a 1 point prize match the winning team gains one and losing team loses one point each.. and you must have a point to participate.. and the lobby has to be completely full to start.. and if you drop out mid game you still lose points if your side loses.. but you do not gain any if your side won with out you... Also the game would need to be auto-locked so no one can drop in to avoid more issues that may come up.... (clearly this idea needs some thought before being attempted)..

An for a point sink if we need one eventually... you could add in some grab bag that has a tiny chance of having an item mall item in it.. or you get back less points then you spent to buy it.. or you get nothing.. usually nothing.

I don't have any more ideas on what points could be used for.. atm haha..

[Dresdom]

Maybe...

Commoneer:

-Gets Prestige through commendations. All we are noble sailors fighting in a worldwide power struggle, and honor and courtesy even in war is the only true common value.
-Loses Prestige being killed by outlaws. A filthy pirate destroyed your ship! What a dishonor!
-Pays Prestige to place bounties. When the bounty is achieved, you get a little boost to your Prestige gain, like x2 in the next three matches, as your honor is restored.

Outlaw:
-Gets prestige by killing commoneers and hunters. No mercy and take the loot, you'll be the most infamous air pirate soon! You don't get Prestige from commendation as you don't have a cause to defend, just the gold's shine.
-Loses Prestige by being killed by Hunters.
(-Pays prestige to get rid of a bounty. ??)

Bounty Hunters:
-Gets prestige by hunting down outlaws (and taking the bounties). You don't get Prestige form commendations as you don't follow the war honor codes, you just follow the most priced.
-Loses Prestige when your ship is killed by an outlaw.
(-Pays prestige to bet for a hunt. You boast about your capacities and bet, maybe, 20P before a match. If you get the bounty you add 20P to it, if not you lose your bet. I see balance problems here, maybe a bet cap??)


Relate level to Prestige instead of Achievements, or show Prestige next to the level.
This way you also make commendations highly valuable and people would be much (even) more friendly.

[Jereven]

The problem with commendations as currency is that you can only get them from a person once, and a lot of people prefer to fly consistently together.  (Actually, the entire commendations system needs work IMHO, but that's another topic).

What if the system worked something like this:

* Everyone who signs up as a bounty gets an initial score of 10 points.
* Every match won by a bounty increases their score by 10 points.
* Every match lost by a bounty halves their current score (no lower than 2 points) and awards the removed points to each member of the opposing team (no lower than 1 point)

This means that higher skilled players will tend to have higher bounties, and taking out a high-value bounty is more worth it to the hunter than the low value.

Points for bounties held vs bounties collected are still separate.

[Coldcurse]

The problem with commendations as currency is that you can only get them from a person once, and a lot of people prefer to fly consistently together.  (Actually, the entire commendations system needs work IMHO, but that's another topic).

What if the system worked something like this:

* Everyone who signs up as a bounty gets an initial score of 10 points.
* Every match won by a bounty increases their score by 10 points.
* Every match lost by a bounty halves their current score (no lower than 2 points) and awards the removed points to each member of the opposing team (no lower than 1 point)

This means that higher skilled players will tend to have higher bounties, and taking out a high-value bounty is more worth it to the hunter than the low value.

Points for bounties held vs bounties collected are still separate.

I would say not lower then 1 but that's my opinion.
I do like this idea.