Author Topic: Is it bad that I prefer. . .  (Read 11558 times)

Offline Kestril

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Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« on: January 23, 2014, 02:29:45 pm »
Flak/gat over mortar/gat on the junker? New players seem to hit with the flak, so when I've got 1's and 2's on the ship it's normally my go-to loadout.

But even then, unless I have a particularly good gungineeer on the mortar, I feel that the flak/gat is more consistent in pubs. I also feel that the flak allows for more options while maneuvering around because of it's better swivel speed and range. You don't have to get so darned close and can shoot at some angles more quickly in the mortar. Sometimes I'll stay on the "long" side of short range when trying to avoid flamethrowers (or minimize mortar damage) and other stuff. In short, I guess I prefer the flak's little bit of flexibility, speed, and accuracy over the mortar's raw damage.

I dunno, I catch some flak (hehe, so punny) in the lobby about people going "omgznoez you are playing wrong it haz to be mortar-gat omgnoob" So mark this down as a "validate my reasoning against the meta" thread.

I'll try the hades eventually instead of the gat, but that involves a gunner joining that can shoot the blasted thing.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 02:53:55 pm by Kestril »

Offline redria

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Re: Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2014, 02:48:27 pm »
I actually can't fly gat-mortar pyramidion anymore. Personally I find it to be far too limiting with too many weaknesses. It makes a pyramidion better against ships it is already good against (like a spire) and worse against ships it is already weak against (like a junker).
My 2 go-to builds now are carronade-flamer, which will basically put you in control of any engagement if you can get close, and hades-artemis, which can pop balloons as well, sets fires, has great downward arcs for sitting above somebody once their balloon is down, and also has the long range option.
Meta is weak. Buck it.
(and lesmok gatling + flak works wonderfully I imagine)

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2014, 02:57:45 pm »
Only issue is the fact that by the time you hit gat range, you're real close to the flak's arming time, so you're just lowering your damage. I guess if you talk in terms of them hitting or not, its ok. It'll never really be at peak performance.

Offline Oliver Colt

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Re: Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2014, 03:06:35 pm »
Flak/gat over mortar/gat on the junker? New players seem to hit with the flak, so when I've got 1's and 2's on the ship it's normally my go-to loadout.


I can't shoot a mortar properly so your point is very true Mr. Kestril. Also what do people mean by shooting a Hades properly? :P It's just a very broad term. Does it mean like, hitting a ship exactly at the hull with it or is it about the ammo types for different ranges or something? [hashtag noob xD]

Also also i don't know if it's just me but gats don't have that short range, unless I've been seeing the other guy's shots this whole time :D But I also don't know the arming time of the flak... Damn I'm going to sandbox brb xD

zlater75@hotmail.com

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Re: Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2014, 03:15:59 pm »
flak and gat got nerfed a bit too much which made the mortar still almost the same but closeish range. imho. they became a bit dull and lost their appeal for me. mortar is still appealing but the echidna. don't enjoy it as much as before. gat has so short range but is still very effective on close range.

you might have a point with the arcs but up close the mortar would be more effective for people disregarding arcs.

Offline Kestril

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Re: Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2014, 03:28:09 pm »
@ Oliver Colt: According to the wiki, which may be out of date, the gatling's max range is 400m, and The arming time (the point at which the flak starts to do the most damage) is about 225 meters. So, that's a small 175 meter window for stripping the hull and then killing with the flak, especially at say, a charging pyramidion. According to the math, this loadout has a very narrow range of being at maximum effectiveness.

@Oliver Colt still: I just mean gunners who know the arc of the Hades and can consistently hit at medium range.

But the funny thing is, I stumble upon that 175 meter window a lot in a match. Usually when ships overshoot, are trying to run away, or are attacking an ally, such as a galleon. Plus, the junker is a slow ship, so that little bit of extra range the flak provides helps out when a ship is just outside of mortar range and you don't have the speed to fix it.

 There's also the issue of actually hitting the target. When spinning about, decending, and acending, I'd rather have a gun that can hit in the narrow amount of time it takes to shoot the enemy while their armor is down. So, while the gat/flak has a narrow ~175m window to be the most effective it is always decent at the shorter ranges, and it's accessibility, fast projectile speed, and wider firing arcs allows a crew member of nearly any experience to hit the target.

Compared to the mortar, which is super effective in close, but looses out after the enemy leaves short range and requires a decent gunner. I think that flexibility and ease-of-use gives it to  the flak instead of the the mortar most of the time in public matches on the junker.

Then again, I've got no clan and generally only play public games with random folk. I'll be the first to admit that a good gunner makes all the difference.

 
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 03:34:46 pm by Kestril »

Offline redria

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Re: Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 03:34:06 pm »
Then more power to you! Seriously, if you find that this build works well for you, keep using it. If you want to try something else, try it. There is no right or wrong answer, just right and wrong answers for you. I can't fly a ship dedicated to sniping because I find myself unable to resist closing distance with my enemy. I'm the pilot, I want to be part of the fight, not just a weapons platform. I bring weapons that have long range, and shouldn't work close range, but I make them work with my play style.
I have ram-killed a galleon with a 5 flare gun mobula.
If you see a build and want to try it, just go for it. If you feel like you are weak in an area, find someone who flies with you a lot and is more experienced in using guns and ask about what they would suggest for the way you play. Someone else's insight can really be helpful.

Offline Oliver Colt

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Re: Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 03:44:19 pm »
Ah I see. Well everything makes sense now, thanks sir! :D

I used to fly a gat/hades pyra back when I had no idea what i was doing and I got really good with the hades but since I learned it wasn't a good build I don't use hades as much so I may be crap now xD

Still, I don't get to hit much with a mortar so it may technically be the most effective, but in practice I agree it's best to have something more novice-friendly. It's no use to have more time to hit and whatnot if you're not really hitting.

I can't fly a ship dedicated to sniping because I find myself unable to resist closing distance with my enemy. I'm the pilot, I want to be part of the fight, not just a weapons platform.

I do this too but it usually doesn't end well :P

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2014, 04:09:05 pm »
Rant incoming:

Thing is, the light flak already does so little damage compared to the mortar that it's almost not useful against ships with lots of perma, requiring multiple armor strips to deliver the kill, as opposed to the mortar which kills anything in one clip. The arming time is just the final nail in the coffin making light flak useless. The enemy will certainly get within arming time, and as a junker you are way too slow and unable to kite to maintain that narrow window in which both gat and flak are effective. Junkers are also very vulnerable to sniping in general, so using a weapon that doesn't kill at range while doing nothing else is.. pretty ill-advised.

However, I've had good results with gat/artemis on the side, and all the cool kids are using hades/artemis. IMO the artemis cannibalises too much of the flak's killing role because of its better ballistics and additional shatter damage. It will probably get nerfed next patch.

The mortar is a wonderful weapon on the junker because the ship shines most in close range, where it can fly circles around clumsier ships (every other ship except spire, goldfish, squid). The enemy should never be in a position to flee you because you have an artemis on the front and can wreak havoc on their engines if they are stupid enough to turn tail.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2014, 06:38:22 pm »
If they would take the flak back to what it was before last patch it would be great. They had finally gotten it good. Mortar was the in your face brawly build but flak was the finesse build which was better for junkers and squids. Then...oh noes, we must add arming timers! Sigh...

Mortars are a lot easier to dodge. Their projectile speed is slow and while you might take a hit from one, you can hydro or chute to avoid the rest. The turret's movement speed being slower, it hinders their ability to track you quickly. Flak didn't suffer that issue. Made it even better for high mobility ships.

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2014, 07:04:16 pm »
Of course when you're fighting squids you use lesmok mortar or artemis.

Offline Coldcurse

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Re: Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2014, 04:06:04 am »
flak cannons are easier to shoot then a mortar. I do'n't see why you should feel bad about this because flak/gat is still effective.

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2014, 05:46:48 pm »
I'd say flak is harder to shoot because you need to buff it if you want a one-clip kill.

Offline Skrimskraw

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Re: Is it bad that I prefer. . .
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2014, 06:09:33 pm »
started using hades/artemis and a flak on the side.

the hull engie can quickly take the flak and deal some damage and then back to hull.