Do you like it when things burned? Would you like if they burned better?

[Captain Smollett]

Currently I find the balance in GOI to be really quite good however I find two weapons; flamethrower and carousel, to be out of favor and I think it has to do with them being slightly weaker than their counterparts.

These two weapons also have to be some of the most fun to use in the game.  Fire is really good against unorganized crews but it doesn't do nearly the amount of disabling I wish it did.

What I propose would be a lowering of flame stacks necessary to kick someone off of guns from 8 to 6.  This would allow flamethrowers to be more uesful against teams that can fire control since they'll have to protect their balloons, hulls and guns effectively making a flamethrower worth having on your ship over another weapon.

What say you forum?

[Dolphirus]

The other day my gun got to 8 stacks of fire and I was kicked off of using it. I had forgotten this was a working mechanic. I think that says it all. I approve!

[Crafeksterty]

Maybe. People dont really use incindiary rounds either. A combination of other guns and a banshee/flamer/hades and incindiary from other guns will always cause chaos.


If you want to fire things up, use incindiary.  Oh oh, how about this. Usualy on my close range builds of spire and Mobula, i can bring one incindiary and one Greased gattling. What this does is put preasure on the hull. The engineer will just have to use extinguisher at one point. And if not, itl just keep burning.

What im saying is, it is not really the fire. Its the guns. The flamer satisfies the use of fire pretty generaly, but the banshee needs a bit of love. Dont know what they can do with it.


But if you buff the flamer or the banshee on its firey use, your going to have lots of screams for a nerf. Like i said, you can still bring fire even without fire weapons.

Edit: 1 or 2 stacks of fire are very noticable and do need to be dealt with if something is on fire.

[Thomas]

I suppose I'd be on the fence. For the most part, fire works well. I use the flamethrower on a lot of my builds, and that weapon alone usually causes enough chaos; and that's with my gunners not even using incendiary with it.

For getting kicked off of guns, I don't see that happen often. Once in a blue moon, but most people (that I know of) don't actually aim at the guns all that often. They tend to try and roast the balloon and the hull. I need to coax my gunners to try and aim for their engines a lot of the time.


As for the rockets, I hardly use them myself. I have had them used against me, and they do cause a fair amount of small fires breaking out all over. But nothing extremely detrimental. For the most part it just keeps the engineers distracted and eats away at the less important components as they scramble. Using incendiary rounds along with it might boost the overall potential.

[Crafeksterty]

I want to know the stats of Banshee and mortra. Im thinking that perhaps incidiary mortar is actually a better version of the banshee. Depends. Anyone gots it? Cause i was actually looking around for it. Didnt find anything.

Stats like, default explosion radius, yaw speed/maw speed etc.


Did a bit of researching on some other stats, like damage and fire Chance. Banshee works well with a flamethrow if the banshee also has Incindiary. Its reload is very good, it does not really have to think about the timing. And it spreads fire at 45% versus every component cought in the banshees AOE. It has 6 shots with incindiary and it gives alot of fire.

I have never really brought banshee with incindiary in company with a flamer or a gattling with incindiary. But it does give alot of fire. The flamer does not have accidental fires put on the opposing ship because it is aimed. You can go crazy with it, but one has to be selective at what one puts into fire. While the banshee can maybe just hoot anywhere and still put loads of fires every where and on guns where the flamer does not aim.

Without stats of the weapons function i cant say for sure.

[Thomas]

A lot of the explosive weapons have a natural chance to cause fire. The bigger the shot, the higher the chance generally. Giving the flak cannons a bit more oomph, while the mortar still has a decent chance and a larger clip size to back it up. The rockets have a higher than normal chance compared to the other explosive weapons as far as I know; and of course my knowledge could be outdated.

[Alistair MacBain]

hflak-banshee-light flak all that guns have high enough ignite chance to count on. Besides the hades and flamer for sure but that are fire weapons. The other weapons dont have really high ignite chances.

[Captain Smollett]

My main concern is that fire can't always be counted on as a disabler. 

Against a well crewed ship the hull and balloon will be chemsprayed completely neutralizing an entire weapon on your ship if using a flamethrower.  If guns needed the same amount of attention that balloons and hulls did during a flame attack even good crews, would be affected by fire and gunners would be much more valuable since heatsink would become a huge asset.

Fire tools are really powerful and still easily counter fire on weapons; I just feel lowering the stacks necessary for gun ejections would make the guns worth taking, gunners more useful and squids better and be an overall positive change for the game as well as making a cool mechanic usable again.

[Thomas]

I'm kind of curious how the fire stack system works. I -think- that all the components have an equal chance of getting a stack of fire, but I seem to notice that the balloon and hull gather stacks a lot faster than say the engines or guns, even if you aim specifically at those components.

It might be the crazy spread of the weapon, and using incendiary might yield better results. Which means gunners are a little more useful than an engineer on fire based weapons. Generally I just bring lesmok for the range and don't have another ammo type to fall back on.


Chem spray is a good fire deterrent, but it has it's own problems. It's a pro-active protection, and it actually doesn't last all that long. However, this usually means they don't bring a fire extinguisher. If they let their protection slip, they won't be able to keep up with putting the fire out. They'll be stuck at a component for 15 seconds trying to put out 8 or so stacks of fire. Of course a lot of engagements generally don't last all that long, especially if you can't disable them.

[Captain Smollett]

The Flamethrower is a particle gun:  Each particle that passes through a component has a % chance of  setting that component on fire.  Particles are kind of random within the cone, Balloons and hulls are much larger and more likely to get hit by a particles.

Oddly due to this, burst is actually one of the best ammos to set guns on fire since it makes the particles larger and more likely to hit weapons.

As it stands guns rarely are stacked with enough fire in a reasonable amount of time to kick someone off and make guns worth targeting.  I think the small change down to 6 stacks could change that, creating the opportunity to flamestack someone off the gun while still being counterable and without be overpowered.

[James T. Kirk]

Do I even have to say that I agree with this?

I use flamers often, and I rarely see weapons get red-hot. A buff to its disabling power would be a nice reward for getting in that close.


And on a final note, I find greased best on flamers; you get more ammo, it works faster, and you don't get a turning speed decrease.

[Omniraptor]

I agree too. I think that with the new powerful fire tools, 5 should be the magic number, along with making heatsink act like combined fire extinguisher and chemspray- any ammo stacks are extinguished once reload finishes, AND the gun is immune to new ones.

This would make fire into a niche yet balanced tool- very close-range, doing low damage, but it does EVERYTHING- (slowly) kills balloon, hull, and disables guns and engines.

Also, crazy idea- kerosene/moonshine should increase ignition chance, while claw should decrease ignition or even extinguish fires.

[ramjamslam]

Yes, I hardly ever see gunners getting booted off guns because of fire.  I wouldn't mind trying out other options too like if your guns on fire it will boot you off the gun after so many rounds fired, you could get back on but would have to line up again, or firing bullets while the gun is on fire causes a small amount of extra damage to the gun.

[GreyTea]

Fire Weapons-Hades-Flamer-Carousel,

Hades-By far the most used in the game atm out of the three in my opinion, devastating at any range i think even without the fire damage it causes it would still be the most used, with the de-buff to guns you suggest this could be potentially be over powered close with say incendiary rounds  making a close range Hades more viable and getting people to use incendary over say greased or lesmock, it would be fun to see also makes people going up against such a combo of say carousel hades pyra, use heatsink mixing up the tactics which is never a bad thing,

Flamer-i have been working with some new builds trying to break up the meta a little and an effective pyra build that i found was flamer carronade flamer side, up close this build is deadly because of the added flamer to the side and trifector parts/guns get broken and disabled quicker, if the stack decreased was in place i feel one flamer would be viable and then free's up that combo for say harpoon carronade flamer so they stay close >:-) *insert evil laugh here*,

Carousel-I think the carousel is underused even with the increased spread, on my junker i have a carousel flak side hades front, so a mid/close range build anything that does not have an artimus merc, is in for a bad time, i use it similar to hawatcha gattling goldfish just slight adjustments from front arc to the side then back, i personally would rather the carousel have an arming time put on to it and the spread decreased so we could have a mid range meta game to go with long and brawler, in my opinion that is my preferred style of play you need to watch for terrain cover and be deadly all while being close enough to see the foe charging you or bringing gun arcs upon you,

In short i agreed completely possible even go one further by adding the same mechanic to engines but maybe higher stacks, it would be a simple change that would break up level of play for a new refreshing time of raging that no one brought chem spray/heatsink

[macmacnick]

Banshees are never underused when Sandy's around.