Junker Novice Preset Builds

[ramjamslam]

The Junker was the most recent ship added to novice matches with 3 preset builds.  The other novice ship builds (pyra and goldfish) are equiped with guns I would see in normal matches but these Junker builds are different to the Junkers I see flying around in non novice matches.

Do you think these loadouts are:

• Effective?
• Teach the novice players which guns work together?
• Prepare the players on how to fly Junkers in non novice matches?

Also, do these 3 builds give a wide enough sample on how to build a Junker loadout?
What different Junker builds would you suggest for novice matches and why?

Build 1:
Gatling front and both sides on top deck
Mortar both sides below



Build 2:
Artemis front and top left
Flak on bottom left.
2 Gatling guns on the right



Build 3:
Artemis front.
Gatling both sides on top deck
bottom Deck is left Mortar, right Flak

[Captain Smollett]

1 is actually fine as a brawler, may not be the ideal setup but it's viable (similar to the old front merc meta)

2 should add piercing or another artemis on the port side and a top deck mortar to the starboard side

3 Explosive should be switched from bottom to top, hades with flak.  Honestly though the third ship choice should have a flamer somewhere.  Front Artemis, Port top artemis and port hades plus double starboard flamer would be a fun newb ship.  Everyone loves flames and they crush in newb matches.

[Alistair MacBain]

Well those builds work in theory if you get rid of those flak gat pairs ...
IF you want a flak you would normally pair it with a hades.
But if you think a hades is to hard for novice use a merc with it. IT still works better than flak gat ... And im sure they will realize that a merc is bad in closerange after some engages.
And all those junker builds are exclusivly quite closerange brawl builds.
I think theres on merc artemis pyra preset. Why not add sth like that for the junker?
I mean the junker is mostly used assymmetrical and not symmetrical.

[Sammy B. T.]

Change the gat on the flak side with a magma and you get a long/short range junker.

Mercs on a Junker don't work well outside of cooperating with another ship. For novice matches I would not cry to hard for the loss of them in the novice matches.

[Captain Phil]

1st build looks perfectly fine, 2nd build works if the teammates can work together to use the double explosive/piercing sides for maximum efficiency, and whoever did these forgot about the flak's new arming time, so either merc or hades instead of a gat above it for 3rd build.

[TheSovietKlondikeBar]

I do need to ask, why not have a build for the junker that includes a flare in the front, arty and merc on one side, flamer and carronade/mortar on the other? This would be more of a support build, but having a bit of killing potential, albeit a lot smaller compared to a bunch of other builds (Note: Just about every other build). It would make players rely on supporting other airships instead of trying to go in by themselves and shoot-em-up. Not preferred but would at least give them a "forced"* mindset of ship teamwork as well as crew teamwork. Plus Junker can run support well. (Right?)

*When I mean forced, I mean that support is what the build was designed for, but running the loadout is completely a captain and crew's option.

<sub><sup>Also my wording might have been off a bit, will edit if necessary.

I might also have no idea what I'm talking about.</sup></sub>

[Captain Phil]

Most of the time, people stick flares on the front of junkers so the AI will be forced to use the side guns. For when you have actual players, that is your choice. A flare can output damage so it is not out of the question to have a front flare. But most of the time people usually stick an arti on the front for trifectas and initiation.

[The Djinn]

I think the most important thing for the junker (as one of the most versatile ships) is that it showcase a variety of playstyles while (and this is important) remaining self-sufficient. These are Novice matches and, while I'd love to put emphasis on good team play, I think that expecting Novice matches to have the coordination required to make support ships function is a bit optimistic.

Build 1:
Gatling front and both sides on top deck
Mortar both sides below


I'm a little hesitant about triple gatling (I feel an Artemis or Banshee might make for a more well-rounded ship), but my biggest complaint is that I'd love to see the gatling and mortars switched. It might be personal preference, but most Junkers I've been on run the gunner belowdecks, and keeping up consistent gatling fire at the hull is more important than constantly firing mortars (as you really need to wait for the hull to drop...but we all know that). This would allow the Engineers to do their thing while the gunner fires the gats and keeps the main engine running. I think that change would be to the build's benefit, but it's not a huge deal.


Build 2:
Artemis front and top left
Flak on bottom left.
2 Gatling guns on the right

This one bothers me. Double gatling on a side while requiring a trifecta for explosive finishing damage is perhaps a bit demanding for newer pilots, and the double explosive damage left side is...well, I think it's a bad idea.

I'd much rather see a triple Artemis (front and left side), as this is a bit more in vogue and also a bit more effective than Artemis/Flak (at least when the crew might not know that the Flak is best against a downed hull). The double gat isn't as bad then...but Gat/Mortar might still be a better use of that side, allowing novice players to experiment with a hybrid ranged/brawler junker (which is quite popular).


Build 3:
Artemis front.
Gatling both sides on top deck
bottom Deck is left Mortar, right Flak

This one has two issues. Firstly, it's far to similar to the first build. Secondly, the new range changes to the gatling have made gatling/flak just bad. I don't expect newer players (especially in games heavy with Pyramidions) to understand that they have to fight with the gat/flak side within 400m but outside of 220m for both guns to be effective. That's asking for rather a lot of game knowledge and piloting skill.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a Banshee build, or a Carronade/Flamer ship...something with a bit of disabling power that showcases some of these easy-to-use and fun weapons with a bit more of a niche than "killing power." Banshees, Carronades, and Flamethrowers are all very simple weapons that are easy to use and to understand, and I think a third ship build using some or all of these would really round out the available options.

[Coldcurse]

Empty Mirror build:
Front: Artemis.
Top Left: Mortar, with lesmok rounds for unexperienced gungineers.
Bottom Left: Gatling gun.
Top Right: Artemis.
Bottom Right: Artemis.

Preffered Captain Tools: Tar, Helium, Phoenix Claw.

Explanation of choice of guns:
Artemis: A good allround rocketlauncher that anybody can shoot. Perfect for disabling and pinpointing accuracy.
Mortar: Good damager when hull is down, with this build that wont be a problem. Compared to a flak cannon this gun has more damage potential with short range combat.
Gatling Gun: Good old hull destruction device of doom. no explanation needed.

The right side and front side is for disabling ships. If you angle your ship in the right position you can shoot with all three artimese. When the enemy is disabled you turn your left side to them and shoot them with the DPS side. While the enemy is disabled they have to choose 2 ot of 3 things "hull, engines, weapons." if you time it right they only have the time to repair only 1 thing and you would be at their backside to disable their engines. because the artimese now do more damage you can even kill ships with your right and front sides. Because the artemis has no bulletdrop you don't need experienced gunners and or engineers. just make sure you first stay a midrange distance but not on sniping distance. This ship can be used for various roles such as support, attack or defend. The ship hull is a little flat so it will be harder for the enemy to shoot your hull from midrange distance. if you want to quickly get on the tail of an enemy that flies straight for you I would strongly suggest to lower your altitude and use your balloon as your shield to prevent hull damage, when you're under them turn to the right so you can later turn left to disable engines as you increase altitude (if you rather want your DPS side when you increase altitude then turn left while being under the enemy to later turn to the right). Use tar as you lower your altitude to distract them and do damage, then raise your altitude with helium and turn to the left or right with phoenix claw. with this tactic you'll be ready to shoot those engines of them or completly destroy them.

[Kain Phalanx]

Hades is a terrible side mount.  I wouldn't recommend it even if you want it to go with flak.

I'm fine with the builds.  Be a bit more flexible.  You don't always need both piercing and hull specializers working together.  Ships are different.  The explosive, accurate side of build 2 will get through the small armor of a squid or goldfish and shred their considerable hulls.  The gatling side will shred junker armor and eventually whittle down the small hull as well.  Pyramidions and Galleons will be trouble, though the front disabling artemis helps with any case.

[Alistair MacBain]

Hades is a bad sidemount?
IT is a great weapon and useful even on sides when the ships its placed on is a broadside ship.
THat attribute counts for the junker.
You can even trifecta with hades artemis artemis.
Or use a closerange hades banshee side ...

[Surette]

Really glad to see another ship added to novice matches, but I agree with everything Djinn said. Gat/flak isn't very viable with the flak's arming time, and I'm pretty confused about the flak/artemis pairing. Plus double gatling is just going to frustrate new players when they inevitably don't get a kill using that side of the ship.

[TheSovietKlondikeBar]

Yea, I do agree giving a support role to Novice players and expect them to use it often is a bit optimistic. However, I still do support the idea of having a build with a flare in front, since it would be good to have Novice players have a little bit of diversification with weapons. However, diversification is a slight misnomer, since some "gimmick" builds use more complicated weapons like harpoons and mine launchers, but I consider the flare to be a intermediate "weapon" that Novice players should learn the value of quickly and correctly.

I suggested a build since I do agree with The Djinn that build 1 and 3 are too similar to one another, and should have a build replace it that fulfills a role that only Junkers can accomplish, since they are playing with, well, Junkers. I do like the 3rd build more than the 1st, because you give a Junker a choice between engaging at medium range and engaging at close range while providing long range harassment (something Junkers are VERY good at, which is being able to hit a target effectively at any range with the correct loadout). I also do support the notion of replacing the Gat on the flak side with a Hades. I was originally against this idea because I thought the Hades would be one of the more complicated weapons for a Novice player to handle, however considering that the Hades has become so relevant to the meta and the fact that in truth it works pretty similar to a Mortar I would trust a Hades with a Novice player. Either that or they learn how to use it in Novice matches, so that when they come sit at the big boys table they can eat like a big boy. *shot*

So, conclusion?
-3rd build should have a Hades/Flak combo
-I want a build with a Flare, 'cause Flares are important.

[ramjamslam]

I think build 1 should be an easy ship to fly and symmetrical as this is the first junker people will try, so I think build 1 is the best of the current builds although I would put the gats on the bottom deck/mortar on top and maybe a gun with a bit more reach on the front (artemis or banshee).  Build 2 and 3 are a bit more crazy and as Djinn said 3 is basically the same as 1, I think we would be better showing off more guns and trying more things than just gat's and mortars.

It looks like build 2 is meant to be a support build with a disable/explosive artemis/flak side and an armour stripping gat side but I don't really want to encourage new players consider all explosive weapon builds as viable so like others have said, change the flak to a Hades.  Change the right hand side to either gat/mortar or something more crazy like flamer/carronade.  If you consider this long range ship the hardest (trifecta with the hades is a lot harder than 3 artemis and a lot harder to shoot), I would put it as build 3 (build 3 for goldfish is a lumberfish).

The build 3 that exists now I would get rid of as it is too similar to build 1 but worse because of the flak/gat pair.  I would try to pick a build that is workable but uses some different guns.  You could keep a gat/mortar side for familiarity/safety if you liked, but load the other side up with a combination of banshees, flamers, carronades  and anything else you can think of - just something other than a gat + mortar.  I would even consider putting a double minelauncher on one side, this is a harder ship but will expose new players to mines as well as giving you a gat / mortar backup plan if the pilot decides they don't like mines halfway through the game.

In the end, I would like to see 3 completely different approaches to junkers which are good launching pads for Junker ideas for when players hit non novice matches showing off a bigger range of guns and possible strategies as new players advance from trying build 1 to build 3.