Author Topic: Gunner Passives  (Read 20327 times)

Offline Dolphirus

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Gunner Passives
« on: January 05, 2014, 08:34:20 am »
   We have all seen, on many occasions, the chaos that adding a second gunner to a ship can add. It causes the engineer to throw things, the pilot to scream obscenities and sibling rivalry among the other gunner. The tactical benefits are almost non-existent however. I believe that the argument of three gunners on a ship should be just as valid as the argument for three engineers, or any other combo of the two. In short, this would be accomplished by adding in passive bonuses to the gunner to allow them to better work their magic. A ship with three gunners on it, as an example, would then be viewed as a very dangerous glass cannon as opposed to a very laughable glass target. Guns of Icarus has all the makings of a strong competitive game. The mechanics are simple and the strategies are complex. Every individual can bring their own play style into the fray and it will often be reflected in very unique ways in the game itself. Adding in passive bonuses to the gunner will only compliment those qualities while also making the game more accessible to a wider variety of players, namely those who wish to play as a gunner on a ship. This change would also continue to increase the diversity among teams which can only lead to a higher quality of competitive play.

  The passive changes to gunner would have to be addressed by Muse, however I believe that non damage buffs would be appropriate. Faster reloads and increased turning speed are a few options that could always be tweaked later as needed.

  I'm sure this isn't the first time this has been discussed, though as the game continues to grow the discussion should continue to grow along with it. Your thoughts are more than welcome.

 

Offline Alistair MacBain

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2014, 08:55:43 am »
THis was discussed over and over again and the consensus was always the same.
Passive bonuses are non intuitve so muse decided that they rather not implement them cause it would go against every class can do everything.

Offline Dolphirus

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2014, 09:08:32 am »
While I don't agree in the slightest, I can understand their reasoning.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2014, 08:28:28 pm »
I've been thinking recently about adding passive gunnery tools.  Tools that any class could take but a gunner for example could take to passive gunnery tools and an ammo type.

Being able to take faster rate of fire, faster reload and charged rounds for example would make gunners necessary and feared.

Offline Dresdom

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2014, 02:02:39 pm »
Well, the second gunner can use the range-finder when there isn't a free gun ariented to an enemy, of it can keep the main gunner's gun buffed while the engie keep the ship afloat. That's a kind of "passive boost" to the first gunner job.

I don't think you need to add passives if you have a good crew and build. A galleon with two or three gunners is actually a glass cannon. Have three guns firing at you with the right ammo and an able gunner, and you'll be saying goodbye before you can even start to steer. And I hope I never fly through a pyramidion's ten o'clock if it has three gunners aboard.


Offline Van-Tuz

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2014, 12:00:33 am »
Well... If passives aren't the way then we need some gunner tools that can be used not on the gun.

Thoughts?

Mine are:
1) Move rangefinder to a gunner slot. But prevent pilot from using it on the helm.
2) Short range hand-held flare gun. Because there's rarely eough space for a proper flare gun.
3) Short range anti-flare, anti-mine, anti-tar, anti-harpoon gun. Clearing the skies.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2014, 01:20:49 am »
I'm for creative gunnery tools that effect the guns utility.

Ammo box, for giving all guns +X% ammo in addition to whatever ammo is being used.

Zoom scope for +X% increased zoom

Greased bearings for +X% turn radius

How about some crazy ones like burning rage that makes your gun do more damage if it's on fire.

DPS boosting may even be sensible if in small amounts (faster reload, faster rate of fire, faster reload etc)

 

Offline Coldcurse

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2014, 02:20:39 am »
i was more thinking of only the range finder available for captain and engineer.

when rangefinder is active gunners get +5% accuracy on the marked target.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2014, 04:45:35 pm »
Let me first say that I think gunners are completely perfect as is and need no changes to be "more effective." With that :

First issue with passives - Why don't all classes get one? Id rather keep everything base rather than further solidifying roles on a boat (so you can still have the two gunner dream.)

Next, passive skills. Those simply break the balance that was put there to begin with. For example, Smollet's ideas :

I'm for creative gunnery tools that effect the guns utility.

Ammo box, for giving all guns +X% ammo in addition to whatever ammo is being used.

Zoom scope for +X% increased zoom

Greased bearings for +X% turn radius

How about some crazy ones like burning rage that makes your gun do more damage if it's on fire.

DPS boosting may even be sensible if in small amounts (faster reload, faster rate of fire, faster reload etc)

 

The only one not game breaking to me is the zoom. The fire one just means no one will want to risk using fire weapons (a sad day for Cake too.)

There is way too many negatives to passives to justify their addition, in my opinion. I still am all up for more ammo choices, given they don't just repeat what current ones do. What those ammo could be is an entirely different debate.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2014, 09:26:10 pm »
The buff hammer is essentially a passive buff engineers get when manning guns, it seems logical for a gunner to have a tool that could be applied when using a gun as well in addition to their ammo choice.

Offline Saull

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2014, 10:51:03 pm »
I'm more and more liking the idea of a gunner tool that isn't an ammo type. Maybe making the range finder a gunner tool would work and to make up for the loss of a third ammo type maybe it could be used while on the gun? That way the decision for engineers is either a special ammo or some addition zoom/ range info

I feel the problem with that though is who really needs spy glass and rangefinder?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 10:55:14 pm by Saull »

Offline Dresdom

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2014, 03:57:32 am »
Yep, I'm with Saull. I'd love the range finder to be a gunner tool and being able to be used while on the gun, like the spyglass while on the helm.

Offline Alistair MacBain

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2014, 04:18:27 am »
That way gunners just wouldnt use it and on the ships you need a range finder the captain will bring it.
There is totally no reason for a gunner to kick an ammo type for the range finder on most guns.
The range finder has its niche for sniping and imo only for that.

Offline Kain Phalanx

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2014, 06:58:41 am »
Gunners certainly shouldn't take the rangefinder and I'd say it's the engineer that takes the rangefinder rather than the captain.  The captain needs as much situational awareness as they can get and, depending on the ship, engineers have little to do at long ranges.  They also have nifty indicators if something needs fixed.

Offline Dresdom

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Re: Gunner Passives
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2014, 07:22:33 am »
Well... That's a good point. Engie rangefinder, yep.