Author Topic: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4  (Read 138646 times)

Offline awkm

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #165 on: December 13, 2013, 03:07:04 pm »
I personally like choosing so I'm going to work on it.

An idea you will all probably hate.  In DM, you can only score kills when you cross your line of scrimmage hahahahahahaha.

Offline Shinkurex

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #166 on: December 13, 2013, 03:08:44 pm »
that kind of reminds me of when I was young playing CTF in gym.... good times.....would be an interesting game-type for sure.... maybe something for the future.... but not for DM :P

Offline Thomas

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #167 on: December 13, 2013, 03:12:59 pm »
I can't say whether it will lead to a lot of camping or not. It'd be nice to get a lot of people in the dev app and give it some good hard testing, although I know it's not the easiest thing in the world to actually gather people up for that.


Base spawning is a good way to prevent players from constantly spawning on each other's face, which has been the biggest complaint by far. As for camping, you've always been able to camp. Even when the spawns were random, each team seemed to have a preferred spawning area. Now you can just choose where in your zone you spawn. Currently the choices have been toned down, so instead of 10 options, you have about 3 or 4.

If you both decide to get into a lengthy sniping match, well; that's your decision. It's risky for both teams, since the enemy has a pretty good idea of where you're going to spawn. Though generally they'll have to move further from their zone to make use of that information. If one team tries to camp and snipe, and the other team has a brawler, getting into the enemy zone is a huge advantage. They have very little choice but to spawn relatively close. Since the defeated doesn't choose their ship orientation, this can be a huge disadvantage. Your enemy, especially in the competitive scene, knows your spawn points, and has a fairly good idea of what you think is going to be a good spot to spawn. You make your choice and suddenly you're under attack again.

It's going to require smarter decisions than 'I wanna be as close as possible'. I've already seen this decision backfiring on players in the current system.


For proximity based spawning, which a lot of players are asking for: I feel that it may give the first killing team to much of an edge. Suddenly a spawn point or two aren't viable, forcing the team to one of the remaining spots; giving the enemy a much better idea of where you're going to pop up. The entire system will have to be done over again. It'd likely turn into something closer to what we have now, with spawn points all over and not just in zones. And players are still going to try and spawn as close as possible, often going for a spot that lets them hit a flank or blind spot. It won't be constant endless combat around the same spawn point, but it won't be too much different than that.



Really players should try out the dev app, check out the spawns. Get some real matches going to get a feel of what strategies will and won't work. Theory is all fine and dandy, but it's difficult to predict how it will turn out. What if your spawn is in a cloudy and crowded area, making it harder to camp? What if you can't see the enemies zone, or have a lot of places they could push into your zone from?


Essentially if we can find good spots for team spawns, we can prevent or reduce the amount of issues we have. It's a good system, we all like having a choice and not needing to rely on blind luck for how the match is going to turn out; it just needs some tweaking.

Offline Gryphos

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #168 on: December 13, 2013, 03:24:10 pm »
I personally like choosing so I'm going to work on it.

So there's no chance of having meatballs again?

Offline awkm

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #169 on: December 13, 2013, 03:35:18 pm »
I don't even know what meatballs are anymore...

Offline Mod Josie

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #170 on: December 13, 2013, 03:39:28 pm »

Offline Thomas

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #171 on: December 13, 2013, 03:47:24 pm »
What advantages did random spawning have over user selected spawns?

I think for the most part we like having a choice, since the random spawn was a fickle mistress, sometimes putting us in ideal locations, and sometimes completely boning us (in a bad way). It's painfully clear we don't like enemies spawning on top of us after having just killed them, but that wasn't a goal of the system, just an unintended side effect that's on it's way to being fixed (and it would be fantastic for players to join the dev app and help in that discussions. The more input the better).


Random spawns had the issue of being a little unfair at times. It's like playing a combat game and every time you lost a round you'd roll some dice to see how much health you started up the next round with. You might get 200% or 50%, and that change could effect the outcome of the whole game; something you have 0 control over.

User spawns addresses that by giving players a choice of where to spawn. It makes the game a little more tactical, especially when the little issues are hammered out. Do you spawn near your enemy to race back to your ally? Do you spawn across the map to attack from a better direction? Maybe you choose to spawn not too far away behind some terrain, letting your ally pull them into an ambush. It's not always guaranteed to work, but it's not always guaranteed to fail either. Maybe you won't make it back to your ally and you'll die as well, perhaps they'll head across a map the regroup thinking your're going to spawn near them, and run into you all alone. Maybe they'll figure out it's a trap and not follow your ally into that ambush. The luck factor is gone, it's all about the decisions you make in response to a situation.

Offline Gryphos

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #172 on: December 13, 2013, 03:57:31 pm »
Well at this point in time the current system is worse than random spawns. The base system will likely fix most of the issues, but I'm just saying, the option is always there for randomness should the base idea fail.

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #173 on: December 13, 2013, 03:59:43 pm »
What advantages did random spawning have over user selected spawns?
I think for the most part we like having a choice, since the random spawn was a fickle mistress, sometimes putting us in ideal locations, and sometimes completely boning us (in a bad way). It's painfully clear we don't like enemies spawning on top of us after having just killed them, but that wasn't a goal of the system, just an unintended side effect that's on it's way to being fixed (and it would be fantastic for players to join the dev app and help in that discussions. The more input the better).

An enemy lucky spawn is always more detrimental than a friendly unlucky spawn. With chosen spawns, the enemy will always get their best spawn thus causing every spawn to be unfun.

Offline awkm

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #174 on: December 13, 2013, 04:06:50 pm »
If the enemy always get the best spawn, so do you.

Offline awkm

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #175 on: December 13, 2013, 04:08:20 pm »
Changes are final on Dev App.  You can preview the changes over the weekend before the hot fix lands on Monday.  We can start fresh the feedback as we move forward.

If you play on dev app this weekend, please contain your comments to the proper dev app forum thread and not here.  For organization and my sanity.

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #176 on: December 13, 2013, 04:09:59 pm »
Never said it was unfair, I was saying it less fun.

Offline awkm

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #177 on: December 13, 2013, 04:11:47 pm »
@Sammy BT

Yeah, sorry.  We're stamping out stomping in every place it comes up.  Enjoy spawning behind your enemies while it lasts!!!

You'll be able to decimate (or at least try) the AI in Co-op Mode though.

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #178 on: December 13, 2013, 04:14:54 pm »
Even with proximity restrictions, the enemy is still getting their "luckiest spawn." The camping game is about to get ridiculous.

Offline ramjamslam

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Re: Spawn system feedback 1.3.4
« Reply #179 on: December 13, 2013, 04:36:58 pm »
To reduce the camping maybe each team could have up to 15 or more spawn locations across the map, but you only get 3 or 4 to choose from on respawn based on either where your 'base' is, where the enemy is (in a push forward canyons map), where the active point is and/or maybe a bit of randomness thrown in.