Artemis

[Squidslinger Gilder]

The last time this gun was buffed it was a major disabler but even with multiple arts hitting, you really couldn't kill the target without armor penetration which engineers could repair through. Me, I was fine with that but I remember people having insane length matches just shooting each other and never killing.

The weapon right now is fine on turning and disabling but the dmg output...I dunno if something got changed but triple art junks are far too effective and theres not a lot of counter options, especially on open maps like Dunes.

Curious is this intended?

[Mattisamo]

The last time this gun was buffed it was a major disabler but even with multiple arts hitting, you really couldn't kill the target without armor penetration which engineers could repair through. Me, I was fine with that but I remember people having insane length matches just shooting each other and never killing.

The weapon right now is fine on turning and disabling but the dmg output...I dunno if something got changed but triple art junks are far too effective and theres not a lot of counter options, especially on open maps like Dunes.

Curious is this intended?

Artemis/Merc/Artemis mobula is counter. Watch it happen in like any of the Gent practices.

[Mattilald Anguisad]

ie. countering art with more art?

[Omniraptor]

I'd say it's exploiting the art's inability to aim up by bringing a ship with better vertical speed.

[Mattilald Anguisad]

Good luck if you are going against mobula with Artemises. I'm a bit cuirous how come this is in Dev app Testing section?

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Cause I'm more interested in seeing if there has been a change than arguing with Artholics about whether it is OP or not. I don't want to see it nerfed into oblivion like it was before but I'm seeing it getting abused more and more. I know when that happens, it usually means the offending weapon is going to next be getting a heavy nerf which isn't necessary.

[Mattisamo]

ie. countering art with more art?

Yep =P

And then you just stack more artemis on top and explode.

[Mattilald Anguisad]

Considering how Zill murdered Muse with Artemis spam I wouldn't be surprised if it got badly nerfed either way XD

There is a few ways to nerf/balance artemis without making it too underpowered. Increasing reload time, reducing horizontal arc to prevent triple art on junkers and mobulas.

[Chrinus]

They received a damage buff before the release to make them more viable to actually down a ship, which I do agree with. However, I believe the component modifier is being a pain again, throwing the balance of yet another gun out of tune. We experienced the same issue with mercury spam in the earlier builds. Basically the high component helps strip the armor so that boosted explosive can work its magic. (or in the merc's case the component was the major contributor to the hull damage while it pierced armor)

On the Mobula note, it's difficult to knock that whole ship offline due to how wide the ship is before they can drop that perfect shot to end your artemis spam and keep it down.. The vert is just a bonus

[RearAdmiralZill]

Cause I'm more interested in seeing if there has been a change than arguing with Artholics about whether it is OP or not. I don't want to see it nerfed into oblivion like it was before but I'm seeing it getting abused more and more. I know when that happens, it usually means the offending weapon is going to next be getting a heavy nerf which isn't necessary.

While I agree with that sentiment, I moved this to Gameplay just to get more opinion on it. I hope people do keep the subject on topic and just give proper feedback.

Considering how Zill murdered Muse with Artemis spam I wouldn't be surprised if it got badly nerfed either way XD

There is a few ways to nerf/balance artemis without making it too underpowered. Increasing reload time, reducing horizontal arc to prevent triple art on junkers and mobulas.

Har har. We had three total in that match. I wouldn't call that a total spam of them given a Junker can do that on its own. I haven't run into a game with a Junker like Gilder describes that I couldn't beat with abusing their total lack of upward arcs or getting in their face to exploit their slowish turn rate.

[Sammy B. T.]

I use an Artemis heavily and have had the Artemis used one me heavily. The operate just like any other disabler and thus have similar counters such as responsive teammate and avoiding situations where that can be done. Remember, these guns can't look up and are somewhat dodge-able with rapid vertical movement. Also they do have horrible finishing kill abilities as well as having them wait for "raspberries" (armor break) means losing out on their disable properties.

[Imagine]

Good luck if you are going against mobula with Artemises. I'm a bit cuirous how come this is in Dev app Testing section?

I'm not really a fan of a mobula with trifecta artemis. The way that you have to engineer a mobula generally means that unless you're taking zero hits, quite often you'll only be able to have one, maybe two artemis going at a time. I'd say it's much easier to pull off on a junker (or spire), but both of those ships have their own issues (namely how quickly you can disable everything on a junker and the general paper construction of a spire).

Not that I don't think that Artemis is pretty strong at the moment, just saying all the ships that can get the three artemis loadouts have definitive weaknesses.

[Mr. Ace Rimmer]

Pretty sure that it was debated in last Fridays fireside chat and that they are happy with it for the moment but might consider looking at it again in the future.

[Subarco]

I think a decent counter for a triple Art Junker in a 3v3 is a double Merc Pyra and have the ship be parked just outside of the Artemis's range. The Junker will have a tough time trying to get in range as ships cannot move sideways.

For brawlers, they'll have to rely on tactics and terrain. One example is have a ship be bait, have it go to right forward side of the map where it can easily hide behind terrain if endangered, draw both long range ships' attention as much as possible. The other ship will have to go to the left side of the map, which will be ideally at both enemy ships' rear. Additionally, this other ship can also hug the ground to avoid the chances of being seen and rise up quickly to overwhelm one of the ship. The first ship can join battle when the ambush ship is engaging. Of course, this requires good co-ordination and is a little situational.

[Captain Phil]

I'd say it's exploiting the art's inability to aim up by bringing a ship with better vertical speed.

 Yea, but the other ship can raise up with you since the usual tactic with the arti is to get above the enemy too. What I see is the same issue that we have been seeing with a lot of guns here and there (IE Merc) where you have one gun and it is perfectly fine, but having two or more, it becomes broken.